Is there any technique in TaeKwonDo you have a pet peeve with?

Rat

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One of my old sensei's I swear had a metal toe. It was absolutely painful getting hit in the ribs with his toe, and when he aimed it right, it hurt more than his shin.

Thats not as bad as what i had in my mind, of doing a really high kick to the skull and the only thing makign contact being your toe, for that you might as well ahve just front kicked them in the knee or something.

and this has just made me rememebr some people have you instep kick with your toes as opposed to shin or top of your foot. barefootedat that.


As for the footware comment @jobo TKD is barefooted, thats pretty much the norm and rule, they make little consideration to the dynamics of kicking with shoes on and which types. You cant pull off many of their fancy kicks in boots anyway. My side kick is using the edge of my foot because i have done it in shoes more than i have barefooted and thats how my shoe sort of forced my foot to go. which on reflection just now may be one of the reasons some styles do it that way as norm.


Since the day that we will use our MA skill to defend ourselves on the street, we will have shoes on. When we train kicking, should we train bare foot, or should we train with shoes on?

Some people may say that he just wants to train MA for sport (indoor environment). Should we set that unnecessary limitation to ourselves?

Not nessisarily, if somone breaks into your house you are probbly shoeless or maybe have slippers. Its militantly cultrual that way in some places like japan. But as for how most people live, shoes tend to come off when they get home unless they plan on going out again shortly.
 

jobo

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Thats not as bad as what i had in my mind, of doing a really high kick to the skull and the only thing makign contact being your toe, for that you might as well ahve just front kicked them in the knee or something.

and this has just made me rememebr some people have you instep kick with your toes as opposed to shin or top of your foot. barefootedat that.


As for the footware comment @jobo TKD is barefooted, thats pretty much the norm and rule, they make little consideration to the dynamics of kicking with shoes on and which types. You cant pull off many of their fancy kicks in boots anyway. My side kick is using the edge of my foot because i have done it in shoes more than i have barefooted and thats how my shoe sort of forced my foot to go. which on reflection just now may be one of the reasons some styles do it that way as norm.




Not nessisarily, if somone breaks into your house you are probbly shoeless or maybe have slippers. Its militantly cultrual that way in some places like japan. But as for how most people live, shoes tend to come off when they get home unless they plan on going out again shortly.
most of the complexites with kicking techniques are exactly trying to use you bare foot as a weapon, which needs exacxt techniques and targeting, or it doesnt hurt that much or hurts you more,

if that matters much to you depends on context, belts it matters, competition it matters, general self defence some what less, unless it happen at the beach etal.

i dont spend much time barefoot at the beach or unfortunately get invited to a lot of pool parties, at home a weapon is likely to come to hand, so who needs kicks if you have a rounders bat.

its a value judgment if the practice time, equals the benifit it gives, i think not, others clearly think differently
 

paitingman

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Awesome! I will change my response to a useless kick for me. As others have said it is rough on the knees. I am not certain I ever have the mobility to do much with it.
I agree that it requires a certain range of motion.
I can throw this comfortably at full force with my right leg. No strain or pain ever, but I developed that specifically over months and maintain it still.
Try as I might I can't execute the kick with my left. I decided it's not worth trying to develop both sides.

I also land it a lot from a fake or failed Ashi Barai with my right arm and leg (if anyone knows a Korean term for this or learned this in TKD, pls let me know)

I do recognize the dangers of Bituro/NaeChagi though. I don't know if I'd ever teach this technique to anyone, but I took the journey for myself just out of pure interest and it's now a useful tool for me; however, I will say goodbye to it when my body says so.

What I do have a problem with is pump kicks!
They look nice for demos, and may score points, but the risk:reward is just not enough for me to justify being on one leg for very long.


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dvcochran

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I agree that it requires a certain range of motion.
I can throw this comfortably at full force with my right leg. No strain or pain ever, but I developed that specifically over months and maintain it still.
Try as I might I can't execute the kick with my left. I decided it's not worth trying to develop both sides.

I also land it a lot from a fake or failed Ashi Barai with my right arm and leg (if anyone knows a Korean term for this or learned this in TKD, pls let me know)

I do recognize the dangers of Bituro/NaeChagi though. I don't know if I'd ever teach this technique to anyone, but I took the journey for myself just out of pure interest and it's now a useful tool for me; however, I will say goodbye to it when my body says so.

What I do have a problem with is pump kicks!
They look nice for demos, and may score points, but the risk:reward is just not enough for me to justify being on one leg for very long.


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Not common in the TKD vernacular but I think it would be something like bahl (foot) sseulgi (sweep). That is the common noun for sweep the formal noun is 'seuwipeu'. The common verbs would be 'teolda' or 'keun nolo jeosda'.
It is a very hard language for me to follow.
 

skribs

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You are the second person who said they are not a fan of the outside crescent. What is your issue with it?

I personally find the outward crescent kick worse. At least with the twist kick, you're hitting in line with the knee. The outward crescent kick is across the knee, which is more dangerous and less powerful. I don't see much reason to use that over a hook kick. I'd rather pivot my hips at the apex and turn it into a hook kick.
 

paitingman

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I don't feel there's significant force on the knee doing it but that's my knees.
Do yours hurt or does it just sketch you out?

I find that hook kick requires more distance between me and the opponent. Really out of the range for me to try outside crescent kick.

I do tend to favor hook kick, but because I rarely put myself in position for outside crescent. I land inside crescent all the time, but yeah outside just doesn't come up for me.

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dvcochran

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I do think it is a preference and flexibility thing. Back in the day I could put a front kick on the chin or an inside/outside crescent kick on the side of the head from inside clinch range. I could never do that from a hook/side kick position.
A person has to be leaning Way back on a spinning kick to get out of the path of an outside crescent. A miss would still knock them down.
 

dvcochran

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I don't feel there's significant force on the knee doing it but that's my knees.
Do yours hurt or does it just sketch you out?

I find that hook kick requires more distance between me and the opponent. Really out of the range for me to try outside crescent kick.

I do tend to favor hook kick, but because I rarely put myself in position for outside crescent. I land inside crescent all the time, but yeah outside just doesn't come up for me.

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I can't say I have noticed a force issue on an outside kick but do feel it on inside kicks sometimes.

Fully agree on the spacing for a hook kick.

Are you saying you mostly fight from a closed stance? Is this why crescents are not of choice?

If you are timing for inside crescents are you not in an open stance during the kick. I feel it is just as much about timing and more opponent position specific for outside kicks. Love to use them on spinners.
 

skribs

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I don't feel there's significant force on the knee doing it but that's my knees.
Do yours hurt or does it just sketch you out?

I find that hook kick requires more distance between me and the opponent. Really out of the range for me to try outside crescent kick.

I do tend to favor hook kick, but because I rarely put myself in position for outside crescent. I land inside crescent all the time, but yeah outside just doesn't come up for me.

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That's the direction of impact I see in NFL games when someone tears a ligament in their knee.
 

dvcochran

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That's the direction of impact I see in NFL games when someone tears a ligament in their knee.
Most ACL injures are caused from landing or pivoting poorly. If a person has even average muscular fitness I do not see the crescent motion causing a problem.
The exception would be if the leg was somehow trapped and the lower leg became a big moment load or a lever knee to foot. That could make for a bad day.
 

paitingman

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Most ACL injures are caused from landing or pivoting poorly. If a person has even average muscular fitness I do not see the crescent motion causing a problem.
The exception would be if the leg was somehow trapped and the lower leg became a big moment load or a lever knee to foot. That could make for a bad day.
Fully agree. I've seen and played in football games where an ACL tear occurred. Hate to see it.
The situation, forces, and impact are far from what you find when kicking someone in the head imo.

1. I feel like the foot and ankle absorbs a lot of impact before significant force gets to the knee.
2. I'm kicking someone in the head generally and not the trunk (or a tree trunk), so there's not much resistance
3. There is little to no truly horizontal force going across my knee when I do it. If my foot is going horizontally (parallel to the floor) upon impact, then I feel like I have made contact just after my whip has cracked if that makes sense. For my kick, the power zone is still on the rise, maybe just before the peak of the arch my foot travels in.

Also anecdotally, I too have seen quite a few pro athletes tear an ACL midgame. But I've conservatively seen thousands of outside crescent kicks (hard ones) landed by average Joes and Janes and not seen someone hurt the ACL of their kicking leg.
 

paitingman

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I can't say I have noticed a force issue on an outside kick but do feel it on inside kicks sometimes.

Fully agree on the spacing for a hook kick.

Are you saying you mostly fight from a closed stance? Is this why crescents are not of choice?

If you are timing for inside crescents are you not in an open stance during the kick. I feel it is just as much about timing and more opponent position specific for outside kicks. Love to use them on spinners.
It may just be because I haven't done Olympic sparring in a few years.
If I'm in open stance and close enough to land outside crescent, I'm usually preoccupied with not wanting to get punched in the face. I've naturally distanced myself before the option really presents itself.
I don't even feel like I could land it unless my lead leg is in between their legs, and I just don't tend to put myself in that position especially at that range.
It may be a good surprise option that I could use should I be put there though.
 

Ivan

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Not with specific techniques but lack of them. After I moved up from white to yellow belt in ITF, I wasn't even one hand technique since.
 

skribs

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Not with specific techniques but lack of them. After I moved up from white to yellow belt in ITF, I wasn't even one hand technique since.

I'd be shocked to find there's no new hand techniques in the forms.

Even out of the forms, this is going to depend on the individual school's curriculum more than anything else. My school has new punches about half the time when you get a new belt. White and yellow do the same, purple and orange do the same, and then everything from green through red is the same. Black belts get a lot of new punches right away, and then a few new ones here and there starting at 3rd degree. We have a lot of new rote punch combinations, but as far as individual techniques, a lot are repeats.

The curriculum I'm developing moves away from rote memorization. It has new techniques (punches, kicks, blocks) and concepts for every belt group, and then new forms and self-defense concepts for each individual belt. So in that system, you would have new hand techniques every 2-3 belts.

Even if your school doesn't do new punches every other belt or so, I imagine that you learn new hand techniques in the forms. Unless ITF forms all use the same basic hand techniques.
 

Ivan

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I'd be shocked to find there's no new hand techniques in the forms.

Even out of the forms, this is going to depend on the individual school's curriculum more than anything else. My school has new punches about half the time when you get a new belt. White and yellow do the same, purple and orange do the same, and then everything from green through red is the same. Black belts get a lot of new punches right away, and then a few new ones here and there starting at 3rd degree. We have a lot of new rote punch combinations, but as far as individual techniques, a lot are repeats.

The curriculum I'm developing moves away from rote memorization. It has new techniques (punches, kicks, blocks) and concepts for every belt group, and then new forms and self-defense concepts for each individual belt. So in that system, you would have new hand techniques every 2-3 belts.

Even if your school doesn't do new punches every other belt or so, I imagine that you learn new hand techniques in the forms. Unless ITF forms all use the same basic hand techniques.
Honestly, after white/yellow belt, there is nothing that we can apply in our sparring. All we are tuaght is hooks and punches as well as knife-hands and ridge hands. Yes there are more hand techniques in forms such as spear hands, but we aren't taught how to properly apply them; in fact, we are discouraged to use some techniques such as twin punches in sparring.

I have always tried to apply all of them, I even managed to pull off a good, hard-hitting spear hand thanks to years of pushups on my fingers. Nevertheless, all our target practice, sparring, and other drills are solely focused on kicks. Hand techniques are only practiced in sparring and forms, as well as these exercises called "one steps". There should be much more emphasis on the hands in my opinion, especially since we aren't taught to block in sparring i.e. the blocks used in forms are the only ones we learn, and they aren't as practical in sparring, so everyone has their own manner of avoiding hits.
 

dvcochran

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Honestly, after white/yellow belt, there is nothing that we can apply in our sparring. All we are tuaght is hooks and punches as well as knife-hands and ridge hands. Yes there are more hand techniques in forms such as spear hands, but we aren't taught how to properly apply them; in fact, we are discouraged to use some techniques such as twin punches in sparring.

I have always tried to apply all of them, I even managed to pull off a good, hard-hitting spear hand thanks to years of pushups on my fingers. Nevertheless, all our target practice, sparring, and other drills are solely focused on kicks. Hand techniques are only practiced in sparring and forms, as well as these exercises called "one steps". There should be much more emphasis on the hands in my opinion, especially since we aren't taught to block in sparring i.e. the blocks used in forms are the only ones we learn, and they aren't as practical in sparring, so everyone has their own manner of avoiding hits.
What style school are you in?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Honestly, after white/yellow belt, there is nothing that we can apply in our sparring. All we are tuaght is hooks and punches as well as knife-hands and ridge hands. Yes there are more hand techniques in forms such as spear hands, but we aren't taught how to properly apply them; in fact, we are discouraged to use some techniques such as twin punches in sparring.

I have always tried to apply all of them, I even managed to pull off a good, hard-hitting spear hand thanks to years of pushups on my fingers. Nevertheless, all our target practice, sparring, and other drills are solely focused on kicks. Hand techniques are only practiced in sparring and forms, as well as these exercises called "one steps". There should be much more emphasis on the hands in my opinion, especially since we aren't taught to block in sparring i.e. the blocks used in forms are the only ones we learn, and they aren't as practical in sparring, so everyone has their own manner of avoiding hits.
This sounds a lot more like a school issue than a style issue. If you're learning something in forms, you should be learning application. Otherwise there's no point in learning/practicing the forms.
 

Ivan

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This sounds a lot more like a school issue than a style issue. If you're learning something in forms, you should be learning application. Otherwise there's no point in learning/practicing the forms.
I completely agree. Sadly, this was this only club I could attend, as I lived in a village with little martial arts opportunities. Nevertheless, the club was very good in terms of sparring and did a lot of things right.
What style school are you in?
It was an ITF Taekwondo club, but with a custom curriculum with slightly altered variations of the original forms. Currently, since I moved to university, I joined the university's WTF Taekwondo club, and though we haven't gotten to do sparring, I am not feeling too good about it. I dislike WTF style in general; so much hopping about and too many monkey kicks.

For example, the axe kick in my ITF club was very powerful, where we would lieterally stamp on the opponent's head or shoulders if we used (though very rarely and never at full power). In contrast, the WTF club uses it only as a kick to score points and like a weird, top-down variation of a hook kick. They expect us to snap it backwards, which is weird and feels like a kick that is only used to score points, not do damage.
 

Ivan

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I personally find the outward crescent kick worse. At least with the twist kick, you're hitting in line with the knee. The outward crescent kick is across the knee, which is more dangerous and less powerful. I don't see much reason to use that over a hook kick. I'd rather pivot my hips at the apex and turn it into a hook kick.
I always thought the outside crescent kick was dangerous; I am good at it, and I enjoy executing it. But every single time I throw it, I feel like if it's blocked well enough, it could dislocate my knee. I am honestly convinced the kick is supposed to block circular punches in a way that sets you up for a front kick with the other leg.
 

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