to train with archaic weapons like the Kusarigama, or the Ono, or Naginata, or is training with these weapons soley a way to preserve the past.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
Is it practical
- Thread starter Cryozombie
- Start date
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SAVAGE said:
Really? Gamble you life on that, would you?
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I would also like to point out that, in our art at least, the "practicality" of training with a sword extends to other, similar weapons. Ones which are fairly common and readily availible.
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Tarot said:Hrrmmm tell that to the sword that I have.
Or the cop in our dojo that had a situation with some kids and a sword, or the austrailians who had to ban them due to the large amount of sword violence... or that guy in THIS thread... or the drunken Skinhead who took one off a wall at a party and swung it at ME a few years back...
And now that we are OFF TOPIC... back to my original question please...
First, in training with a sword you learn a lot of very important things. It improves your overall movement as well as teaches distance and timing in a life or death manner, and in a way that training without one will not.
I will bet that a lot of people in New Orleans would have loved to have been skilled with a katanaa while back.
You never know what situation you will be in, sure guns are nice to have but what about when the ammo runs out?
And yes, part of what we are doing is preserving the art, you nver know what skills our children or grandchildren or great grandchildren, etc. may need.
Ninjutsu is about adaptability, and the way to be adaptable is to understand what brought us to where we are today, and apply those skills in a way that applies to the current situation. But if you dont know how the problem was solved in the first place, how can you adapt?
Markk Bush
I will bet that a lot of people in New Orleans would have loved to have been skilled with a katanaa while back.
You never know what situation you will be in, sure guns are nice to have but what about when the ammo runs out?
And yes, part of what we are doing is preserving the art, you nver know what skills our children or grandchildren or great grandchildren, etc. may need.
Ninjutsu is about adaptability, and the way to be adaptable is to understand what brought us to where we are today, and apply those skills in a way that applies to the current situation. But if you dont know how the problem was solved in the first place, how can you adapt?
Markk Bush
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Tengu6 said:
Good post Markk, I agree with that, and I have no question about sword training at all... we got sidetracked into that... my question was more along the lines of other, stranger, more "exotic" weapons.
I do think you addressed some of that in your post.
evenflow1121
2nd Black Belt
I think there is a practicality to everything, you dont know who is going to be carrying what in the middle of a dark ally, but it comes down to probability, what are the chances that you are going to get attacked with a sword or a naginata even, as opposed to a gun or knife, still it can happen.
Technopunk said:
Yup, I dont care how exotic the weapon, if it had a practical purpose then it was a solution to a problem at some point in history, and, from history we can know its effectiveness. Now, if we learn how it was a solution, we can apply that knowledge toward todays problems. Kind of a problem solving thing.
especialy some of the heavier weapons, we learn to move much more efficiently to manipulate the weight. Imagine the same movement but minus the 10 or 20 pound object. Devastating I think.
Also, Charles Daniel recently had Ed Martin make him some 8 pound Bokken to practice some Shinden Fudo Ryu stuff, he saysthe movements directly relate to throws......cant wait to see that stuff in July at Ed place.
Markk Bush
Markk certainly brings up some very good points! As another example, the same thing can be said about Modern Arnis. The stick and blade work is all interactive, meaning things can easily be translated from empty hand to weapon and weapon to empty hand.
Mike
Mike
mrhnau
Senior Master
Well, what -would- you consider a practical weapon? I'll rattle off a few
Shuriken - you always have some keys, some rocks or something similar. granted, its not bladed, but useful for distraction
sword/hanbo - umbrella, stick, broom, alot of general items can be translated
knife/tanto - lots of knives around and you can easily carry one w/out -too- much suspicion
Kasuri Fondo (sp) - lots of rope like objects around
What else would you consider really practical?
Like others have said, I'm of the opinion that learning more exotic weapons have their merits. For me, even if its not practical it at least gives you an idea of the breadth of the art and alot of the techniques are easily transferable from weapon to empty hand. As far as the training being practical on its own merits, I kind of doubt it. Won't find analogies for some of the more exotic weapons laying around frequently.
Personally, our group does not do alot of the more exotic weapons. However, I am looking forward to trying out the Kyoketsu Shoge at some point in the near future
Shuriken - you always have some keys, some rocks or something similar. granted, its not bladed, but useful for distraction
sword/hanbo - umbrella, stick, broom, alot of general items can be translated
knife/tanto - lots of knives around and you can easily carry one w/out -too- much suspicion
Kasuri Fondo (sp) - lots of rope like objects around
What else would you consider really practical?
Like others have said, I'm of the opinion that learning more exotic weapons have their merits. For me, even if its not practical it at least gives you an idea of the breadth of the art and alot of the techniques are easily transferable from weapon to empty hand. As far as the training being practical on its own merits, I kind of doubt it. Won't find analogies for some of the more exotic weapons laying around frequently.
Personally, our group does not do alot of the more exotic weapons. However, I am looking forward to trying out the Kyoketsu Shoge at some point in the near future
We have worked with the Kusari Fundo with Jack Hoban, but for the most part it has been the hanbo, bo, daisho, knife, and pistol. I would like to work with more flexible weapons such as the kusarigama and the Kyoketsu Shoge.Technopunk said:
I do believe that flexible weapons requires some good movement before one can use them effectively.
Grey Eyed Bandit
Master of Arts
I like using a t-shirt as a flexible weapon. Stick one hand through the neck opening and out one of the arms, wrap a little and you're ready to rock and roll. Take a look at Marc Halleck's Panantukan Silat Combatives videos and you'll see what I mean.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Bigshadow said:
I don't train the Japanese arts and weapons, but rather the Chinese, including the staff and spear.
While there can be similarities between staff and spear technique, it seems to me that they are definitely different animals. Having a sharp blade at the end creates different possibilities and limitations.
I know some staff work that mostly thrusts and even "slashes" with the end of the staff, and seems similar to spear. I believe these particular staff techniques may even be modified spear techniques, but my experience with the spear itself leads me to believe it is still quite different.
However, I can definitely see how experience with these weapons can have a useful translation in the modern world. A broomhandle could definitely be put to good use with both staff and spear techniques. Dao (Broadsword) technique could be applied as strikes instead of slashes, with a shorter stick or broken broom handle. Thrusting knife techniques could be applied with a pen or pencil. Use your imagination and you could come up with many more.
