Is it not a good idea to use boxing in a street fight situation do to the risk of breaking bones in

Balas Sermas

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knuckle push ups wont do any good at all,

what is it you think they achieve?
I think his theory is that; the longer he compressed the bones on his knuckles the more molecular/bone density they would acquire from compressing them lifting his body weight hence the more durable they will become.
 

Gaucho

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When Mike "My Brain Is On Fire" Tyson was champ, he got into an argument (of course) in a Manhattan club with one of his competitors. Showing his usual self control, he punched the guy in the head - and broke his hand. The toughest guy in the world, built like a refrigerator, broke his hand.

Military unarmed combat training tends to discourage punching because a broken trigger finger (and other fingers)
could be fatal later on.
 

jobo

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When Mike "My Brain Is On Fire" Tyson was champ, he got into an argument (of course) in a Manhattan club with one of his competitors. Showing his usual self control, he punched the guy in the head - and broke his hand. The toughest guy in the world, built like a refrigerator, broke his hand.

Military unarmed combat training tends to discourage punching because a broken trigger finger (and other fingers)
could be fatal later on.
well he didnt break his hand did he, he got a fracture to some small bones, of course very few people hit as hard as mike, the weaker your punch the less chance of damage

i find the whole discussion bizarre, if you hit the guy hard enough to fracture some digits then he should be spark out on the floor or at least wobbling a lot, you wont even feel it to the next day, so it doesnt take you out of the fight

are you really putting forward the idea that a boxers fracture would stop you pulling a trigger ? i find that most unlikely to be honest, it may hurt a bit,
 
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cane56

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Well I'd have to disagree. Pat Halsey was number eight in the world in the welterweight division boxing. Due to his size there was many times that someone in a bar would pick a fight with him. They were always bigger and thought this would be easy pickings. I never saw Pat lose a bar fight! It was normal the fight was over in 30 seconds or less. I don't remember him ever breaking his hand or even complaining about his hand. Oh and by the way he was the state wrestling champion. The pinpoint accuracy of a boxer seldom is he missing the chin the nose the eyes, he is not hitting your forehead. Training with him was completely different than any martial arts I've ever taken. The guy couldn't bench 200 lb if you put a gun to his head. But when he hits you even at 147 lb it was like a bomb going off. I've seen him walk out the door and before the door even shut him walking back in, some guy is laying in the dirt. Because of his two brothers Mike who is ranked and Ned who was ranked he could take a punch. My only goal when we spared is to kick his legs grab him and arm lock him.
 

Petey Nunchakus

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Is it not a good idea to use boxing in a street fight situation do to the risk of breaking bones in your hand? I contacted a self defense instructor and told him I wanted to take boxing lessons for self defense. He responded there are to many small delicate bones in the hand to be punching an assailant in a life or death situation and that it is not uncommon at all for even professional boxers to break there hands during fights even when they are wrapped and gloved. So he said that it be reckless and irresponsible for him to teach me boxing for self defense and put me in a situation where I could lose my life based on what he teaches.

And then he referred me to this youtube video for an alternative to hitting with boxing punches. What do you think?

I have broken my right hand numerous times, but if I had to defend myself for some crazy reason, I'd probably go blank if I was told not to throw fists Whenever I'm at my Muay Thai classes, I actually concentrate now on where my index and middle knuckles are landing on the bag or mitts. The hand is a fragile thing, but I think lots of breaks from punching, pertain to what part of the hand you are landing your strikes with.
 

Steve

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I've always thought this whole debate is a little strange. If I were fighting, I presume it would be because I feel like my life is being threatened. I'm not sure about you guys, but in my book, a broken hand is a pretty good outcome.
 

Petey Nunchakus

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I've always thought this whole debate is a little strange. If I were fighting, I presume it would be because I feel like my life is being threatened. I'm not sure about you guys, but in my book, a broken hand is a pretty good outcome.
I'd be surprised seeing someone throwing palm strikes in a fight, unless it was Bas Rutten
 

gpseymour

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I've always thought this whole debate is a little strange. If I were fighting, I presume it would be because I feel like my life is being threatened. I'm not sure about you guys, but in my book, a broken hand is a pretty good outcome.
As long as it doesn't happen in a way that impedes your ability to control the outcome, I agree. If I break a hand knocking him down, that's probably okay. If I break my hand and he's still standing (and the break is bad enough to reduce hand usage immediately), I've got troubles.
 

john_newman

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That's Why Karate is probably known for self-defense..!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Take your instructor advice seriously..!! You might have some questions in your mind even after instructions from your instructor. keep reading Blogs in your free time, so you mighty have some clarity about that..
 

Buka

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I've busted just about everything at one time or another, but never broke a hand. None of my students have either. One of the very first things we train is punching properly, gloved or bare handed. It's drilled into them until they're sick of hearing it. Then drilled into them some more.

So far so good, I guess.
 

dvcochran

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I've busted just about everything at one time or another, but never broke a hand. None of my students have either. One of the very first things we train is punching properly, gloved or bare handed. It's drilled into them until they're sick of hearing it. Then drilled into them some more.

So far so good, I guess.
The third knuckle on my right hand was 'knocked off' broken from a low-ish but scoring area punch that was timely blocked by a knee. The same hand was also broken in a tournament by a fluke falling punch that did score.
So both punch were 'correct' but still did not work out very well for me.
I have spent 100(0)'s of hours on the Makiwara board and have broken 5 board and 10 blocks (5 on each hand at the same time) several times.
In competition or in a street fight shxt happens sometimes and how we react to it make all the difference.

The way you trained it the right and only way to do it. Where the chips fall is just up to chance sometimes. I think the more someone pushes the limits the more likely that things will happen.
 

Buka

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The third knuckle on my right hand was 'knocked off' broken from a low-ish but scoring area punch that was timely blocked by a knee. The same hand was also broken in a tournament by a fluke falling punch that did score.
So both punch were 'correct' but still did not work out very well for me.
I have spent 100(0)'s of hours on the Makiwara board and have broken 5 board and 10 blocks (5 on each hand at the same time) several times.
In competition or in a street fight shxt happens sometimes and how we react to it make all the difference.

The way you trained it the right and only way to do it. Where the chips fall is just up to chance sometimes. I think the more someone pushes the limits the more likely that things will happen.
I've been lucky hand wise. But I attribute it to pushups. Vertical fist, horizontal fist, only the first two knuckles. We would do fifty pushups in thirty seconds on every break in class. There was never a class where we did less than ten sets, usually more. When they get used to it from day one, it's like bowing in - it's just something you do every day.

I have not been so lucky with ribs. I seem to get my ribs broken every ten years like clockwork. And I'm due. (curses!)
 

dvcochran

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I've been lucky hand wise. But I attribute it to pushups. Vertical fist, horizontal fist, only the first two knuckles. We would do fifty pushups in thirty seconds on every break in class. There was never a class where we did less than ten sets, usually more. When they get used to it from day one, it's like bowing in - it's just something you do every day.

I have not been so lucky with ribs. I seem to get my ribs broken every ten years like clockwork. And I'm due. (curses!)
Tell me about it. Here is my boring dumb rib story.
When I was still in college I worked maintenance at an automated foundry. Stunk like hell but the automation was cool and really cutting edge for the time. It was an Italian owned company and Everything was "quanto velocemente in fretta".
A 10 horsepower motor failed on a ball field length drying system that was a high reach 2 scaffolds up. These are heavy motors, just south of 200 pounds. So everyone is freaking out and in a rush. I am one of the newer guys so I go up, unbolt the motor and slide it out of the facing. We used 2" x 12" boards doubled up for walk boards. When the motor slid out and I had the weight the boards went "Crack"! Like a dummy, instead of dropping the motor (which would have been dangerous to people below and around) I bear hugged the motor and held on for the ride down.
If you know what bricklayers scaffolds look like they have a metal cross brace. On the way down I smacked the cross brace on my left ribs and took the full weight of the motor plus the force of the fall. Knew right away I had injured something. Turns out it was two cracked ribs and a nasty soft tissue injury. Big bruise.

Here is where I go really stupid. I was just working my way into the circuit and had a big tournaments 3-weeks down the road. So I taped up for 3-weeks, continued to work at a limited capacity, and lightly trained. Sounds good right? I decided to compete 3 weeks later. I got through two matches okay but was getting increasingly sore. One of my nemeses back then was Joel Henke. Really good and vicious. I was leading the match but he saw that I was gimpy and exploited it when I made a bad step. was hammered by a spinning side kick that hit but glanced off my backside. I went down and could not breathe, so I took my 1-minute medical time out. My trainer and my instructor were in my ear; so I got taped up and finished the match winning by one point by playing keep away for about 45 seconds.
After the match I started wheezing and spit up some blood. I bowed out of the tournament, was carried to the ER and my two ribs that were originally cracked were now one fully broken rib that poked into the Pleura and the other rib cracked much worse and very displaced.

I have a lot of worse injuries but that is still the worst pain I remember.
 

Buka

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Tell me about it. Here is my boring dumb rib story.
When I was still in college I worked maintenance at an automated foundry. Stunk like hell but the automation was cool and really cutting edge for the time. It was an Italian owned company and Everything was "quanto velocemente in fretta".
A 10 horsepower motor failed on a ball field length drying system that was a high reach 2 scaffolds up. These are heavy motors, just south of 200 pounds. So everyone is freaking out and in a rush. I am one of the newer guys so I go up, unbolt the motor and slide it out of the facing. We used 2" x 12" boards doubled up for walk boards. When the motor slid out and I had the weight the boards went "Crack"! Like a dummy, instead of dropping the motor (which would have been dangerous to people below and around) I bear hugged the motor and held on for the ride down.
If you know what bricklayers scaffolds look like they have a metal cross brace. On the way down I smacked the cross brace on my left ribs and took the full weight of the motor plus the force of the fall. Knew right away I had injured something. Turns out it was two cracked ribs and a nasty soft tissue injury. Big bruise.

Here is where I go really stupid. I was just working my way into the circuit and had a big tournaments 3-weeks down the road. So I taped up for 3-weeks, continued to work at a limited capacity, and lightly trained. Sounds good right? I decided to compete 3 weeks later. I got through two matches okay but was getting increasingly sore. One of my nemeses back then was Joel Henke. Really good and vicious. I was leading the match but he saw that I was gimpy and exploited it when I made a bad step. was hammered by a spinning side kick that hit but glanced off my backside. I went down and could not breathe, so I took my 1-minute medical time out. My trainer and my instructor were in my ear; so I got taped up and finished the match winning by one point by playing keep away for about 45 seconds.
After the match I started wheezing and spit up some blood. I bowed out of the tournament, was carried to the ER and my two ribs that were originally cracked were now one fully broken rib that poked into the Pleura and the other rib cracked much worse and very displaced.

I have a lot of worse injuries but that is still the worst pain I remember.
Oh, that's nasty. Gotta' admit, though, I laughed. I know the "here is where I go really stupid" all too well.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Is it not a good idea to use boxing in a street fight situation do to the risk of breaking bones in your hand? I contacted a self defense instructor and told him I wanted to take boxing lessons for self defense. He responded there are to many small delicate bones in the hand to be punching an assailant in a life or death situation and that it is not uncommon at all for even professional boxers to break there hands during fights even when they are wrapped and gloved. So he said that it be reckless and irresponsible for him to teach me boxing for self defense and put me in a situation where I could lose my life based on what he teaches.

And then he referred me to this youtube video for an alternative to hitting with boxing punches. What do you think?

No sandwich or burrito has ever defeated him. His open mouth technique cannot be defended.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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They've helped me a lot. For one thing strengthening your wrist (which is very important), flattening your hand, and after zillions of them you get used to hard contact on your fist. Do them on wood or cement floor.....but I did a lot of things.

It's fairly lengthy process with 1 by lumber, ceramics like pots and saltillo tile. I did a lot of breaking, but was NOT trying to punch thru the target, but only slightly. I practices on painted cindar block walls and tilt wall to learn how to make heavy contact without damaging my hand. I also had to stop increasing the pressure at the right time. I was fortunate, I worked for for a company (at that specific time) that made ceramic transducers for missiles. Fairly large cylinders up to an inch thick. They had plenty of rejects I could use for breaking, inch thick pots are expensive. I hit flat mostly, but I'll roll my fist onto the first and second knuckles depending on what kind of damage I want to do. I did this in a four year period in the '70s and it's never caused me problems.

View attachment 23098

Before I hear it, no my hand's not flat. I'm trying to take a photo.
Nice fist structure. Thats what counts.
 
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