is it just me?

[puunui]

My grandfather won an olympic gold in fencing.

He must have been competing for someone other than USA. USA never won gold at the Olympics in fencing.

 

[puunui]

It's a shame to see how the kids do ho si sul or one steps sparring using very light contact, and it's scary to see how people do for example a sweep to the suporting leg without the comitement to put down his/her partner inside the dojang, I can image how can become this if the person needs to put down a perp.

In your school, what is the ratio between children and adults? I ask because I look at the typical taekwondo student in the US, which are mostly children below the age of ten, and don't see too many who could put down a perp, no matter how hard the self defense training was.

 

[terryl965]

I am sure most people on this forum understands age related self defense being tought, I do not imagine my 12 year old taking down an adult trying to kidnap him. But at the same time he is tought to understand his surroundings and always become dead wieght and act like he is having a siezure if need be and keep his cell phone on because I have a GPS attached to each of my childern phones just in case.


Back to the topic nobody goes balls out 100% of the time other wise they could not workout, so control sparring has some value even though it is controlled.

 

[puunui]

I am sure most people on this forum understands age related self defense being tought, I do not imagine my 12 year old taking down an adult trying to kidnap him. But at the same time he is tought to understand his surroundings and always become dead wieght and act like he is having a siezure if need be and keep his cell phone on because I have a GPS attached to each of my childern phones just in case.

I don't know if Manny understands that. I'm trying to find out. Perhaps his school is more adult oriented. As for the self defense strategies you taught your son (and by extension also to your students in your school), those can and are taught at even the most commercial non contact settings.

Back to the topic nobody goes balls out 100% of the time other wise they could not workout, so control sparring has some value even though it is controlled.

That used to be the argument of Gracie Jiujitsu, that you could roll 100% everyday, but what I am seeing is that BJJ students cannot roll everyday 100%, because they get injured too, just like in striking sparring. Cauliflower ears, finger and toe dislocations, mat burns, joint hyperextensions and other joint injuries, neck cranked, etc. Perhaps BJJ is changing and becoming more strength oriented, and moving away from what Carlos and Helio Gracie originally intended.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

He must have been competing for someone other than USA. USA never won gold at the Olympics in fencing.

Not true, though the only gold won by the US has been women's saber by Mariel Zagunis in 2004. Though if his grandfather is Mariel Zagunis, that is an extraordinary feat!

http://usfencing.org/athletes/mariel-zagunis

Also, in 1904, Albertson Van Zo Post won gold in single sticks. He is the only man to have won gold for the US in fencing. Depending on how old msmitht is, Van Zo Post would be the only candidate (1866-1938).

http://www.hickoksports.com/biograph/postavz.shtml
http://usfencinghalloffame.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=104&Itemid=52

Daniel

 

[msmitht]

You laugh now, but wait until a few million of your TKD guys get their Krav certification.:ultracool
Sean

I actually like krav. Don't think most civillians need to know how to take a shotgun away from an attacker.
Lol was based on number of participants vs.. for every km student there are 100 tkd. As km numbers increase so do tkds. It is a fact that can not be argued.

 

[puunui]

Also, in 1904, Albertson Van Zo Post won gold in single sticks. He is the only man to have won gold for the US in fencing. Depending on how old msmitht is, Van Zo Post would be the only candidate (1866-1938).

Ok, I stand corrected. Kind of weird though, that he is listed as an athlete from Cuba. Hopefully he will tell us if that is his grandfather.

 

[puunui]

Except that you owe a large apology to the ATA instructors who don't award bb in 18 months and who stress proper technique. You targeted the few and used that brush to paint the many.

I remember back when I lived in California, GM Clint Robinson put out some really good ATA black belts. He has since converted completely to Kukki Taekwondo and is out there helping other former ATA members do the same.

GM Robinson told me that he received the Kukkiwon 3rd Dan when he was stationed in Korea in the early 70's. He said that he tried to compete at the 1st World Taekwondo Championships as the US Army team and drove up from down south where he was stationed, only to be told that there already were already one or two teams from the US. When he came back to the US, no one would recognize his Kukkiwon certification, partially due to racist reasons, but a lot of times because no one knew what it was.

 

[puunui]

Light to med contact up to a certain age is acceptable as I said b4.

We had that at the USTU, at least to the head, with those infamous Junior Safety Rules.

 

[msmitht]

Ok, I stand corrected. Kind of weird though, that he is listed as an athlete from Cuba. Hopefully he will tell us if that is his grandfather.

I apologise. He won 2 gold in the senior olympics (foil) and 1 silver(saber).
Forgot to add senior.
He was also a great boxer (headbut smith) till he threw his back out.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Hard sparring IMO depends on the students. I'll use myself as an example. I'm 18, near enough 165lbs, and a red belt. My main training partner/MA friend is 17, around that weight, and a green belt. Both of us are in pretty close to peak shape, he's in better shape than me. No reason we shouldn't spar full contact and actually I've been limping and choosing my shoes carefully since Wednesday when I caught his elbow in my instep. FWIW we have to spar to grade. Our older members in other towns who are looking for something different are often exempted from this rule. I'm unsure if I agree with it or not but for a 50-something man or woman who's here for the art and to stay active doesn't need to spar. TaeKwonDo is a broad banner and is many things to many people.

FWIW, and it might be nothing, if/when I end up teaching I'll stress full contact sparring in the cirriculum. Aside from the obvious benefits, it's a lot of fun.

You laugh now, but wait until a few million of your TKD guys get their Krav certification.:ultracool
Sean

Sorry but I don't see it. Two completely different things. Krav is a (beautifully effective) no-nonsense self defense system and Tae Kwon Do is a highly in-depth system that's quite deeply entrenched in politics, culture and "It's this way because it is." The people who want hardcore self-defense i.e Krav don't stay with Tae Kwon Do very long IME.

Obviously I love TaeKwonDo since I'm here, and although I have no interest in training Krav Maga I have a lot of respect for it too. But I think it's two different paths with two different objectives.

 

[Manny]

In your school, what is the ratio between children and adults? I ask because I look at the typical taekwondo student in the US, which are mostly children below the age of ten, and don't see too many who could put down a perp, no matter how hard the self defense training was.

Gladly I anser you my friend. I would say the percentage of children is about 70%, the rest is teens,moms and some young men.

Who can put down a perp? well all depends, a small boy or girl won't put down a man but.. I think a a boy can put down a small perp like the bully in his elemnetary school don't you think? That's why when I see a 10 years old boy who does not uses effort to take down his partner in dojang that I shake my head. If a kid does not train to use well his/her the tools whe encourage them in a proper way, how can we asume he/she will keep the bullies at bay at least.

I have a friend insiede dojang his name is Roberto he's 16 and likes to fight with me, and he has become strong and very good, when we do shyrum he wrestles me very good, in fact there are some times that's is not so easy to me to pin him down, last year doing full sparring he caught me very well with a high kick. Roberto knows that if he can break my bearhugs for example he will have some sucess on streets.

Manny

 

[Manny]

Puuni,talking about children, the best tech I can teach them against a man is to kick or punch the man in the balls... and then run like hell and screaming for help, it will be stupid to ask a child to try to do an osotogary trow and then finish the bad guy with a knife hand to the troat.

We always tell to children that if any person wants to grab or hurt them first thing to do is YELL pretty loud NO!!! or BACK OFF!! or DON'T TOUCH ME!!! or HELP!!! and run.

Manny

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

We always tell to children that if any person wants to grab or hurt them first thing to do is YELL pretty loud NO!!! or BACK OFF!! or DON'T TOUCH ME!!! or HELP!!! and run.

"NO" could be misinterpreted by a bystander as "oh it's just a kid who doesn't want to listen to his/her dad". "No I won't touch your penis" would get more attention. I'm not sure if I am being funny, or serious, to be honest.