Is it disrespectful to ask your (ITF) master to teach you the old way of TKD punching (Karate)

[Axiom]

I would love to be taught in detail the striking mechanics that originally were part of General Chois system for 25 years, until sine wave came along. That is Chang Hon/ITF striking pre 1980, which had the same punching mechanics as Shotokan (according to my instructor, although stances are higher in TKD).

My question is: Would it be bad manners of me to ask the instructor who has been training since 1966 to teach me their original method of delivery, in depth? Is their Karate origin a sensitive subject to a dedicated master or how would he respond, you think?

You might say do Karate instead.. Well no, I prefer TaeKwonDos stances and overall training. And don't want to join a KKW school at the present moment.

 

[Axiom]

How would master Earl Weiss respond? Would you be willing to teach it if the student seeks to learn both ways of punching?

 

[JR 137]

It would depend on how you asked and the teacher's personal beliefs. And if he/she was willing to teach it.

This isn't much different than asking my CI to teach me a kata I already know, but teach it the way it was done before changes. Kata get changed, but most often the changes are subtle; things like hand position, where your eyes focus, perhaps a change like cat stance vs backward leaning stance, 45 degree turn instead of 90, etc. (although the last few aren't as subtle as the first few). My CI has been in our organization for about 45 years, so it's safe to say he's seen quite a few changes. Funny thing is he says whenever something gets changed, we usually go back to the original way within a few months anyway, so he really hates changing things unless his teacher explicitly tells him so.

If I asked my CI outside of class and not in front of everyone in a way that implied I think the new way sucks and we should go back to the old way, I don't think he'd have a problem showing me. I think he'd have a problem with it if I was doing the old stuff during class while everyone else was doing the current stuff though. I don't think he'd care at all if I was practicing the old stuff on my own time and not getting everyone else to do it.

I could see a teacher being hesitant about showing stuff that's been changed. He might think you'll do it in class and others (especially lower ranks) will copy you while thinking it's right, then he'd have to go around and undo your influence. I could also see him not wanting to teach it because he thinks the current way is better and why start to ingrain bad/less effective habits.

Asked the right way to the right teacher, I don't think it would be a problem. Asked the wrong way and/or the wrong time, I'd foresee getting an answer of no.

 

[Axiom]

I
I could see a teacher being hesitant about showing stuff that's been changed. He might think you'll do it in class and others (especially lower ranks) will copy you while thinking it's right, then he'd have to go around and undo your influence. I could also see him not wanting to teach it because he thinks the current way is better and why start to ingrain bad/less effective habits.

Asked the right way to the right teacher, I don't think it would be a problem. Asked the wrong way and/or the wrong time, I'd foresee getting an answer of no.

I was thinking about asking after class when I'm a black belt, if he has less of a problem with it then since I've already been taught the fundamentals of the modern way of doing it. I have been training for 4 years and will recieve my black belt next year.

 

[Axiom]

Eugh I hate when people say that "you will recieve your black belt next year" well how do you know you will you may fail the test I just can't stand it when people say that like they know they're going to be given no matter what

Maybe because he gives me the thumbs up whenever I sidekick a mitts? Has openly stated that I'm good, says I'm a great jumper. To hear that from a 9th dan who is a perfectionist is very gratefying. But my journey has of course only begun.

 

[jobo]

I would love to be taught in detail the striking mechanics that originally were part of General Chois system for 25 years, until sine wave came along. That is Chang Hon/ITF striking pre 1980, which had the same punching mechanics as Shotokan (according to my instructor, although stances are higher in TKD).

My question is: Would it be bad manners of me to ask the instructor who has been training since 1966 to teach me their original method of delivery, in depth? Is their Karate origin a sensitive subject to a dedicated master or how would he respond, you think?

You might say do Karate instead.. Well no, I prefer TaeKwonDos stances and overall training. And don't want to join a KKW school at the present moment.

i don't,see any disrespect in asking, well not to the instructor anyway, but my time on here has,shown me there are some odd people teaching ma, by that i don't mean my fellow posters, most of whom are quite normal.

but in the way that some might take that as a disrespectful,comment to the,art as instructed and there to themselves as the instructor, only you know the culture of the place

 

[Axiom]

i don't,see any disrespect in asking, well not to the instructor anyway, but my time on here has,shown me there are some odd people teaching ma, by that i don't mean my fellow posters, most of whom are quite normal.

but in the way that some might take that as a disrespectful,comment to the,art as instructed and there to themselves as the instructor, only you know the culture of the place

Yes, they do seem to carry themselves with greater pride than say a boxing coach, which is fine, but that's why I asked here.

 

[Axiom]

Not that it is at all comparable in quality, but I wouldn't hesitate asking a boxing coach to teach me old school bare knuckled boxing mechanics.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Folks, get it back on topic... this isn't a thread about sidekicks or promotions...

 

[Dirty Dog]

You should be able to ask your instructor about any aspect of your training without anyone being offended. They may or may not provide you with the specific training you're asking for, depending on how they view the sine-wave vs non-sine-wave techniques. But discussing the differences should never offend anyone.

 

[Archtkd]

I would love to be taught in detail the striking mechanics that originally were part of General Chois system for 25 years, until sine wave came along. That is Chang Hon/ITF striking pre 1980, which had the same punching mechanics as Shotokan (according to my instructor, although stances are higher in TKD).

Have you mastered your teacher's methods before thinking asking him to teach you stuff that does not exist in his current curriculum? There's a reason your teacher is not teaching you what you think "was part of General Choi's system for 25 years."

 

[Axiom]

You should be able to ask your instructor about any aspect of your training without anyone being offended. They may or may not provide you with the specific training you're asking for, depending on how they view the sine-wave vs non-sine-wave techniques. But discussing the differences should never offend anyone.

We have talked and he has demonstrated to me how they used to throw punches. But what I seek is private lessons in it.

 

[Axiom]

Have you mastered your teacher's methods before thinking asking him to teach you stuff that does not exist in his current curriculum?

I don't know, and I don't know if that's a condition either to be taught the old school way in private.

 

[Gnarlie]

I don't know, and I don't know if that's a condition either to be taught the old school way in private.

Here's a hint: you haven't, and it is.

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[Gerry Seymour]

I would love to be taught in detail the striking mechanics that originally were part of General Chois system for 25 years, until sine wave came along. That is Chang Hon/ITF striking pre 1980, which had the same punching mechanics as Shotokan (according to my instructor, although stances are higher in TKD).

My question is: Would it be bad manners of me to ask the instructor who has been training since 1966 to teach me their original method of delivery, in depth? Is their Karate origin a sensitive subject to a dedicated master or how would he respond, you think?

You might say do Karate instead.. Well no, I prefer TaeKwonDos stances and overall training. And don't want to join a KKW school at the present moment.

I wouldn't consider it rude, if it was asked the right way. In fact, I deal with this regularly. I changed some of the classical forms for my curriculum. Sometimes students ask me to show them the mainline versions, as I learned them. I always say yes, and try to point out the key differences, and what I like best about each approach.

Others may have different thoughts, including your instructor.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

by that i don't mean my fellow posters, most of whom are quite normal.

I object to that kind of name-calling!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You should be able to ask your instructor about any aspect of your training without anyone being offended. They may or may not provide you with the specific training you're asking for, depending on how they view the sine-wave vs non-sine-wave techniques. But discussing the differences should never offend anyone.

DD, I've heard this "sine wave" mentioned before, in this context. What is it?

 

[Axiom]

DD, I've heard this "sine wave" mentioned before, in this context. What is it?

Rejection of hip twist in favor of a down, up, down motion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's a hint: you haven't, and it is.

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How can you assert that it's a requirement for learning the older way? That's a decision for his instructor.

 

[Gnarlie]

How can you assert that it's a requirement for learning the older way? That's a decision for his instructor.

Maybe, but I think it unlikely that an instructor would be willing to teach something off-syllabus when the on-syllabus variant has not been mastered. It would be didactically poor practice.

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