Is ground and pound ethical?

Rich Parsons

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Then the owner is a piece of **** as well who needs to stop skimping on security.

OK so we need to have 5000 people at the place.
To have a team of three to handle all situations This means 15000 security on hand.

Or are you saying that they need to hire police which also raises the cost

In the end the bar to have patrons would need to charge $20 for a Lite bear in a can pulled directly from the case.
$30 if you want one from the fridge.

Or maybe people should not act out or do things that require interactions with a bouncer?
Maybe , just maybe ?
 

drop bear

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Then the owner is a piece of **** as well who needs to stop skimping on security.

Pretty much. But that is almost every owner. And almost every person.

I did this big rant once about cops bash and shoot people because as a society we are happy to have one cop in a car attending incidents.

The the response was.

Well who is going to pay for that?
 

drop bear

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OK so we need to have 5000 people at the place.
To have a team of three to handle all situations This means 15000 security on hand.

Or are you saying that they need to hire police which also raises the cost

In the end the bar to have patrons would need to charge $20 for a Lite bear in a can pulled directly from the case.
$30 if you want one from the fridge.

Or maybe people should not act out or do things that require interactions with a bouncer?
Maybe , just maybe ?

5000 can be a bit safer because you probably have ten guys to deal with trouble.

When it's low like 50 and you are facing 4 guys is where it gets super hinky.
 

Rich Parsons

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5000 can be a bit safer because you probably have ten guys to deal with trouble.

When it's low like 50 and you are facing 4 guys is where it gets super hinky.

Hi Drop Bear,
I agree.
It can be hinky with 50 or a couple hundred.

Yet, I was stabbed in the leg in a crowd of 10k wall to wall people and thought I was just hit. Realizing it, and moving towards them was about 15-30 seconds at most, yet I could never catch them in the crowd and they were gone.

My point to other poster though was that if the "Cheap" owner has to have enough to guarantee groups handle the issue 100% of the time, means 100% coverage by said group.

It can be done with high power hoses for crowd control.
It can be done with Tear Gas
It can be done with superior numbers. Hence my comment.
Or one plays the numbers games and has coverage and sometimes a team member can be isolated by accident or on purpose.

Not arguing with you.
I was trying to jump to the bottom of the slippery slope of saying only numbers would solve the problem.
 

GojuTommy

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Pretty much. But that is almost every owner. And almost every person.

I did this big rant once about cops bash and shoot people because as a society we are happy to have one cop in a car attending incidents.

The the response was.

Well who is going to pay for that?
Eh, its more as a society were ok with the wrong type of people with the wrong mindset, and are ok with it, imho.

PA vs mims is a perfect example. If a cop cant provide reasonable articulable suspicion their safety is at risk, they shouldnt have the power to order people out of their cars.

If a person is not willing to ensure a subject is armed, AND an active threat, before using deadly force, then that person should not be a cop.

If youre not willing to guarantee 100% that using deadly force is absolutely justified to protect yourself you shouldnt be a cop. Lives of civilians at risk, I dont mind some more leeway, after all I dont believe a suspect should have to shoot an innocent before police use appropriate force.

Police abuse and unjustly shoot people when theres 2 or 4 or 6 of them on scene for every suspect.

Back to the bouncer thing though, I guess I go to either the high class bars or the bars in really bad places, but every bar I can recall going to has had at least 2 bouncers and 1 male bartender or bar back working.
 

GojuTommy

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OK so we need to have 5000 people at the place.
To have a team of three to handle all situations This means 15000 security on hand.

Or are you saying that they need to hire police which also raises the cost

In the end the bar to have patrons would need to charge $20 for a Lite bear in a can pulled directly from the case.
$30 if you want one from the fridge.

Or maybe people should not act out or do things that require interactions with a bouncer?
Maybe , just maybe ?
I have absolutely no clue where youre getting 1500 security from.

I said a team. I worked security at a hospital with several thousand patients possible, with hundreds of visitors, hundreds of staff, hundreds of students, hundreds of researchers and unknowable number of randoms of campus. I personally averaged going hands on bout once per shift, guess how many people we had per shift. 10.

Most clubs or bars also dont hold any where near 5k people, so no clue where that number came from.

A typical club or bar should be fine with between 2-5 bouncers

On top of all of this most issues in a bar or club of any size will involve people who cant walk or see straight, so the idea that a bouncer needs to cave in someones skull dealing with a violent or aggressive drunk is laughable.
 
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