Is ball of the foot roundhouse outdated with modern shoes?

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InfiniteLoop

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Btw, if Choi was referring to chambering as the backward motion(which would still be wrong since that's not the beginning motion), why not just write chamber then? How is the reader supposed to know what he means by backward motion?
 

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Imagine throwing a boxing right hand all the way from your waist to a target. The arm will reach maximum acceleration until it hits a target. Why? Because it will never be stopped in its tracks until it hits.
Um, no. Maximum acceleration is at the start of the movement, and the hand may or may not accelerate through the entire distance from start to impact, depending on other factors. It will reach it's highest VELOCITY at some point towards the end of the movement, however.
Words have meaning. If you don't understand the words, it's not likely you understand the subject.
 

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It doesn't matter if it does or not. A free leg is more effective mass... And mass is a bigger equation than speed (which is why HW hit harder but move slower).

One more thing. If I throw a rock the size of a penny to your head, it will damage you more than a heavier softy bench boll.

The reason for that is that the lighter but harder object penetrates you deeper, and this means you actually get more mass transfered to your skull from a lighter object, than the softy but heavier bench boll that simply tapped you on the outside.

So extra mass can be "converted" depending on penetration.

It's not just the measurements of the object and the speed it travels.
I can only assume you never passed Jr High physics.

Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity: K.E. = 1/2 m v2. If the mass has units of kilograms and the velocity of meters per second, the kinetic energy has units of kilograms-meters squared per second squared.

Source
 
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I can only assume you never passed Jr High physics.

Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity: K.E. = 1/2 m v2. If the mass has units of kilograms and the velocity of meters per second, the kinetic energy has units of kilograms-meters squared per second squared.

Source
I have a physicist/martial artist on my side who said the following: Ground and pound is more devastating than punching someone standing, because with ground and pound you choke the reaction (if the head is planted down) from the target. So even though you are throwing arm punches, they are more devastating than if both of you stood up.

The same principle is true of a rock hitting you, the penetration is deeper, that's why a light rock or a small ice cube that falls can kill.
 

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I have a physicist/martial artist on my side who said the following: Ground and pound is more devastating than punching someone standing, because with ground and pound you choke the reaction (if the head is planted down) from the target. So even though you are throwing arm punches, they are more devastating than if both of you stood up.
Ground and pound relies on the ground removing the ability of the head to recoil and lessen impact. That has nothing (zip, zero, zilch, nada, bumpkiss) to do with your claims.
Keep on digging that hole...
 
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Ground and pound relies on the ground removing the ability of the head to recoil and lessen impact. That has nothing (zip, zero, zilch, nada, bumpkiss) to do with your claims.
Keep on digging that hole...

Yes it does. The reason I punch harder slow and deep, compared to fast but pulled, is due to the chocking mechanism by not pulling away my punch.

And the reason that it generates more power is because the choking of the reaction induces more effective mass into the target.

Now if you then add the fact that heavyweights also hit with literally more mass carried on them, you can see how mass is far more important factor than high speed for power, although both combined is ofc optimal.
 

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he reason for that is that the lighter but harder object penetrates you deeper, and this means you actually get more mass transfered to your skull from a lighter object, than the softy but heavier bench boll that simply tapped you on the outside.
The mass of an object is fixed unless you physically change the object itself since mass is simply a measurement of the matter within any given object.
. We can bring in a physicist here to shame you for thinking speed is more crucial than mass for power.
speed and mass are irrelevant to "power" from a physics standpoint since power is a measurement of work over time. colloquially when fighters refer to power they are really referring to a fighters ability to cause maximum damage with a minimal number of strikes. When looking at damage caused by a strike or kick or something similar it is more beneficial to look at Kinetic energy/momentum and how it relates to the force distributed by a punch/kick/etc. But as many kinesiologist will tell you, getting perfectly accurate measurements on this from humans is near impossible due to the expansive factors to take into account. That's why they usually use static inanimate targets to measure these things.
The light weight vs heavy weight analogy was used by Choi and it’s wrong.. Light weights are blindingly fast yet nowhere near as powerful as even slow heavyweight.
This is a tough statement to accurately measure. When testing against inanimate static targets it is possible for lightweights to hit with as much force as a slow heavy weight. However, this does not translate directly into causing damage to a living target as many other factors need to be taken into account such as an opponents ability to "absorb" the strike and cause a negative acceleration, or the amount and density of various tissue covering vital target areas, distribution of force across the striking surface, and much much more. In most cases a lightweight fighter has less mass so will need more acceleration to deliver the same force as a heavyweight but additionally a heavyweight likely has more tissue mass covering vital areas allowing the to take more/heavier hits than a light weight would which would give most heavyweight fighters a slight advantage over light weight (not taking into account other factors such as reach).
 
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This is a tough statement to accurately measure. When testing against inanimate static targets it is possible for lightweights to hit with as much force as a slow heavy weight. However, this does not translate directly into causing damage to a living target as many other factors need to be taken into account such as an opponents ability to "absorb" the strike and cause a negative acceleration, or the amount and density of various tissue covering vital target areas, distribution of force across the striking surface, and much much more. In most cases a lightweight fighter has less mass so will need more acceleration to deliver the same force as a heavyweight but additionally a heavyweight likely has more tissue mass covering vital areas allowing the to take more/heavier hits than a light weight would which would give most heavyweight fighters a slight advantage over light weight (not taking into account other factors such as reach).

No. I don't care who you name, Manny Pacquiao for instance does not hit as hard as say a George Foreman, and Foreman hit like a zoombie.
 
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The mass of an object is fixed unless you physically change the object itself since mass is simply a measurement of the matter within any given object.

I didn't say that their masses changes. I said that mass transferred changes.
 

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Btw, if Choi was referring to chambering as the backward motion(which would still be wrong since that's not the beginning motion), why not just write chamber then? How is the reader supposed to know what he means by backward motion?
Because the text was never meant to be a substitute for an instructor.
 

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What does weight from supporting foot to kicking foot have to do with his backward motion theory ?
Example: If you are standing with your weight equally distributed and you are going to do a lead leg front snap kick as you raise and chamber your lead leg, bringin the foot "Backward' the weight distribution goes from 50/50 to 100% on the support leg. Now as you extend your leg for the kick you can shift your weight forward into the kick.
 

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Yes it does. The reason I punch harder slow and deep, compared to fast but pulled, is due to the chocking mechanism by not pulling away my punch.

And the reason that it generates more power is because the choking of the reaction induces more effective mass into the target.

Now if you then add the fact that heavyweights also hit with literally more mass carried on them, you can see how mass is far more important factor than high speed for power, although both combined is ofc optimal.
If you stand up against a wall and get hit it is the exact same effect as ground and pound. What causes more damage in ground in pound is not relative to you having more or less mass thrown into the punch, you can throw just as much mass into a punch standing and cause a higher acceleration due to being able to push with your feet effectively hitting with a greater force. What makes ground and pound dangerous is that the person is literally getting hit twice with one punch. If you hit a person causing their head to accelerate into the ground the ground hits back with an equal force. So one punch equals two hard hits and not being able to recoil defensively because you are on the ground means the bulk of that force is delivered to vital areas in the head. I would question your "physics" friends credentials a bit. I've never heard of choking as a scientific term outside of electrical current (in electrical engineering, choking is the process of blocking high frequency AC while still allowing DC and low frequency currents to pass through a circuit) If he is simply saying that you are "choking" the flow of the technique (kinda like the choke on a carburetor) then all you have to do is get closer or punch further into your target. And as stated previously "power" is a vague non-descript word that does not effectively convey the point you are trying to get across, as power is W/t.
I didn't say that their masses changes. I said that mass transferred changes.
no, it's all the same mass. The energy transferred changes. You can shift more mass and accelerate it at a higher velocity but again this is changing the Kinetic energy end of the equation not the mass. I think your wording is just a bit off and that's why it's hard to get your ideas across.
 
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If you stand up against a wall and get hit it is the exact same effect as ground and pound. What causes more damage in ground in pound is not relative to you having more or less mass thrown into the punch, you can throw just as much mass into a punch standing and cause a higher acceleration due to being able to push with your feet effectively hitting with a greater force. What makes ground and pound dangerous is that the person is literally getting hit twice with one punch. If you hit a person causing their head to accelerate into the ground the ground hits back with an equal force. So one punch equals two hard hits and not being able to recoil defensively because you are on the ground means the bulk of that force is delivered to vital areas in the head. I would question your "physics" friends credentials a bit. I've never heard of choking as a scientific term outside of electrical current (in electrical engineering, choking is the process of blocking high frequency AC while still allowing DC and low frequency currents to pass through a circuit) If he is simply saying that you are "choking" the flow of the technique (kinda like the choke on a carburetor) then all you have to do is get closer or punch further into your target. And as stated previously "power" is a vague non-descript word that does not effectively convey the point you are trying to get across, as power is W/t.

no, it's all the same mass. The energy transferred changes. You can shift more mass and accelerate it at a higher velocity but again this is changing the Kinetic energy end of the equation not the mass. I think your wording is just a bit off and that's why it's hard to get your ideas across.

I asked a physicist: why do I hit harder slow but deep and highly tensed, compared to relaxed and ultra fast.

His explanation was first that I am indeed punching harder the first way, and second that it is due to the fact that I'm choking the reaction of the bag, and he use ground and pound in MMA as an analogy.
 

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If you pull your knee to touch your chest as your daily training, if will help your chambering.

You should be able to do better than this.

knee_to_chest.jpg
 
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Example: If you are standing with your weight equally distributed and you are going to do a lead leg front snap kick as you raise and chamber your lead leg, bringin the foot "Backward' the weight distribution goes from 50/50 to 100% on the support leg. Now as you extend your leg for the kick you can shift your weight forward into the kick.

Lead leg kicks are rarely displayed in the book and a lead front kick would be an exception. A default kick is thrown off the rear leg and it doesn't matter which technique it is, it will begin by travelling forward.
 
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Because the text was never meant to be a substitute for an instructor.

If I have to ask an instructor, get rid of the middle man, that is the book, and have the instructor speak sensible English. His point about beginning backward motion is both wrong and incomprehensible. His point about standing leg bent for side kick is Karate residuals and wrong in his own ITF.

The only possible reason you could have for understanding what the hell he meant was by putting together the dots through various lectures. I still argue that Choi has a misconception. You can define leg recoil as a backward motion, but that's not the beginning of the movement. The beginning of the movement the leg gets up, not backward. And your body certainly doesn't lean backward
 

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I asked a physicist: why do I hit harder slow but deep and highly tensed, compared to relaxed and ultra fast.

His explanation was first that I am indeed punching harder the first way, and second that it is due to the fact that I'm choking the reaction of the bag, and he use ground and pound in MMA as an analogy.
that is a very wrong and unscientific explanation of things. The amount of force delivered by an object directly correlates to velocity and mass. you can hit just as deep by not pulling your punch which takes a conscious effort. The fast punches will without any doubt hit harder than a slow punch. This is not to say that they will cause more damage because they won't necessarily. When you hit an object you apply a force and if the force is great enough it will cause an acceleration on it. when the object is unable to accelerate any further because there is another object behind it, like when doing ground and pound, the force the object applies on the ground also gets applied by the ground to the object. This becomes measured as a compression force on each side. This is why ground and pound can cause more damage with a weaker punch. But I digress, as this has nothing to do with your initial post. If you really want to know the science behind how to throw an effective kick, the math involved in kinematic studies is a bit tricky but here is a general study that can give you an idea. Kinematics is messy and rarely gives anything conclusive but it does help improve performance.
This is in no way definitive but explores possible methods for delivering an effective round kick (that's why it has "discussion" at the end instead of "conclusion")
 
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that is a very wrong and unscientific explanation of things. The amount of force delivered by an object directly correlates to velocity and mass. you can hit just as deep by not pulling your punch which takes a conscious effort. The fast punches will without any doubt hit harder than a slow punch. This is not to say that they will cause more damage because they won't necessarily. When you hit an object you apply a force and if the force is great enough it will cause an acceleration on it. when the object is unable to accelerate any further because there is another object behind it, like when doing ground and pound, the force the object applies on the ground also gets applied by the ground to the object. This becomes measured as a compression force on each side. This is why ground and pound can cause more damage with a weaker punch. But I digress, as this has nothing to do with your initial post. If you really want to know the science behind how to throw an effective kick, the math involved in kinematic studies is a bit tricky but here is a general study that can give you an idea. Kinematics is messy and rarely gives anything conclusive but it does help improve performance.
This is in no way definitive but explores possible methods for delivering an effective round kick (that's why it has "discussion" at the end instead of "conclusion")

You get more mass into the target from something that digs deep, rather than simply scrape on the outside, which is why a slap doesn't hurt you and why a soft beach boll thrown, no matter how heavy, won't hurt you, but a lighter rock will.
 

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You get more mass into the target from something that digs deep, rather than simply scrape on the outside, which is why a slap doesn't hurt you and why a soft beach boll thrown, no matter how heavy, won't hurt you, but a lighter rock will.

Nope. You're absolutely correct. That doesn't look like it hurts at all. I think you need to fire off an email to the physics department at every major university and let them know they've been wrong all these years.
 

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. You can define leg recoil as a backward motion, but that's not the beginning of the movement. The beginning of the movement the leg gets up, not backward. And your body certainly doesn't lean backward
You are focusing on the leg and not the foot.
 

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