Is ball of the foot roundhouse outdated with modern shoes?

InfiniteLoop

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I have a new found love for ball of the foot as the dollyo chagi kicking tool and I'm curious If you guys think it’s too artificial when wearing modern shoes?


It looks pretty violent to me... I'm sure it would hurt?

 

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Here's a crazy idea... maybe you should kick something with it?
How effective it will be in use varies from one person to another. Kicking air is fine, as far as it goes, but you should also be kicking actual things.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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Why does he adress a straw man? You don't need to pull back any toes with shoes, correct, so why not just kick with the same target ?

One of the most common questions you get with this techinique is, how are you supposed to curve your toes when you have shoes on? You are not. Since Gen. Choi's TKD was designed for the military, the roundhouse kick while wearing combat boots is to kick the opponent's target with the shoe tip.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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Here's a crazy idea... maybe you should kick something with it?
How effective it will be in use varies from one person to another. Kicking air is fine, as far as it goes, but you should also be kicking actual things.
I am confused. Please read my post above
 

dancingalone

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I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think utility depends a lot on the type of show you are wearing. Flip-flops not so much. Running shoes probably would work.

Many years ago I had cause to use a roundhouse kick when wearing wingtip shoes. I instinctively adapted and used the pointed top tip of the shoe to good effect. I think it is important to be versatile. If you have a good roundhouse kick, it doesn't take too much extra time to train using the ball or instep depending on situation.
 

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I taught roundhouse with both the instep and the ball of the foot. Students threw them both ways but chose which was best for them. Barefoot, with shoes, sneakers etc. Bag work, shields and sparring.

I honestly can't remember even one student that chose the ball of the foot. Mainlly because it's slower
and has less reach

But I'm sure a lot of people love it. It's all good if it works for you.
 

Buka

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I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think utility depends a lot on the type of show you are wearing. Flip-flops not so much. Running shoes probably would work.

Many years ago I had cause to use a roundhouse kick when wearing wingtip shoes. I instinctively adapted and used the pointed top tip of the shoe to good effect. I think it is important to be versatile. If you have a good roundhouse kick, it doesn't take too much extra time to train using the ball or instep depending on situation.
Man, wingtips are great for kicking people. It should be against the law to sidekick someone with wingtips.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think utility depends a lot on the type of show you are wearing. Flip-flops not so much. Running shoes probably would work.

Many years ago I had cause to use a roundhouse kick when wearing wingtip shoes. I instinctively adapted and used the pointed top tip of the shoe to good effect. I think it is important to be versatile. If you have a good roundhouse kick, it doesn't take too much extra time to train using the ball or instep depending on situation.

I have always used instep in sparring to avoid jamming my toes. But I am curious to see how well I do with the ball of the foot now that I've gotten so much better.
I taught roundhouse with both the instep and the ball of the foot. Students threw them both ways but chose which was best for them. Barefoot, with shoes, sneakers etc. Bag work, shields and sparring.

I honestly can't remember even one student that chose the ball of the foot. Mainlly because it's slower
and has less reach

But I'm sure a lot of people love it. It's all good if it works for you.

Why would ball of the foot be slower? It's the same chamber and release..
 
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InfiniteLoop

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Here's a crazy idea... maybe you should kick something with it?
How effective it will be in use varies from one person to another. Kicking air is fine, as far as it goes, but you should also be kicking actual things.

I'm gonna come out of the closet here...
I've only thrown bit chagis in sparring due to the speed advantage. 'Ive never layed on them a "full" turning kick.

But if a thug on the street wants it, he can have it. He will not be getting any bit chagis.
 

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I use it more like a front kick than a round kick. Just at a weird angle.
 

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I'm gonna come out of the closet here...
I've only thrown bit chagis in sparring due to the speed advantage. 'Ive never layed on them a "full" turning kick.

But if a thug on the street wants it, he can have it. He will not be getting any bit chagis.
So your plan is to rely on a strike without knowing if you can actually use it effectively?
And this seems like a good idea to you?
 
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InfiniteLoop

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So your plan is to rely on a strike without knowing if you can actually use it effectively?
And this seems like a good idea to you?

"Ball of the foot for basics, instep for sparring" is a dogma inprinted in our souls from day 1 in class. It's hard psychologically to go against someone who started training TKD 1966:)

But there are have been Japanese Kyokushin fighters in K1 using ball of the foot, so why should I be any worse!
 

Dirty Dog

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"Ball of the foot for basics, instep for sparring" is a dogma inprinted in our souls from day 1 in class. It's hard psychologically to go against someone who started training TKD 1966:)
That's about when I started. And I teach ball of the foot, arch of the foot, toes, shin...
But there are have been Japanese Kyokushin fighters in K1 using ball of the foot, so why should I be any worse!
Ummm.... because they've trained it on something other than air?
 
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InfiniteLoop

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That's about when I started. And I teach ball of the foot, arch of the foot, toes, shin...

Ummm.... because they've trained it on something other than air?

My instructor says that ball of the foot is more devastating and so I just assumed that I shouldn't use it in sparring sessions since we aren't looking to hurt each other. Have you been hit with it?
 

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I have always used instep in sparring to avoid jamming my toes. But I am curious to see how well I do with the ball of the foot now that I've gotten so much better.


Why would ball of the foot be slower? It's the same chamber and release..
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it's because of the contraction of the calf and quad muscles when bending back the foot to use the ball of your foot.

But it is definitely slower.
 

Dirty Dog

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My instructor says that ball of the foot is more devastating and so I just assumed that I shouldn't use it in sparring sessions since we aren't looking to hurt each other. Have you been hit with it?
Your instructor doesn't know how to strike with less than full power? Seems odd.
After this long, I think it's reasonably safe to say I've been hit at least twice by any strike you care to mention. Maybe even three times.
Of course, just because someone else can use a technique effectively doesn't mean you can. So as I said in the first place... go kick something other than air.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it's because of the contraction of the calf and quad muscles when bending back the foot to use the ball of your foot.

But it is definitely slower.

This doesn't exactly encourage one to try it on a heavy bag.... His punches had more power....

1:02:12
 

paitingman

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IMHO, the ball of the foot is not for friends lol.
I don't throw it at my training partners, but I love roundhouse with the ball of the foot.
It really depends on the shoes tho.

I can do it in my sneakers (basically Keds) no problem.
I cannot in my dress shoes.
I'm picky about shoes so I buy the same shoes again and again once I find one I like.
This has allowed me to always have an old pair for training and I have always stayed pretty in tune with what I can and cannot do inside my shoes
 
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InfiniteLoop

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Your instructor doesn't know how to strike with less than full power? Seems odd.
After this long, I think it's reasonably safe to say I've been hit at least twice by any strike you care to mention. Maybe even three times.
Of course, just because someone else can use a technique effectively doesn't mean you can. So as I said in the first place... go kick something other than air.

Practically nobody uses it in sparring.. .. It's not even legal in Olympic TaeKwonDo. Kickboxing has a much slower pace, closer range, is in a ring... etc
 
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InfiniteLoop

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IMHO, the ball of the foot is not for friends lol.
I don't throw it at my training partners, but I love roundhouse with the ball of the foot.
It really depends on the shoes tho.

I can do it in my sneakers (basically Keds) no problem.
I cannot in my dress shoes.
I'm picky about shoes so I buy the same shoes again and again once I find one I like.
This has allowed me to always have an old pair for training and I have always stayed pretty in tune with what I can and cannot do inside my shoes
Ball of the foot is more of a stab, wheras instep is a whip.
It is definitely slower.
1:30..... Not saying his technique is great but you can't kick much faster than that with any tool.

 
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