Is ball of the foot roundhouse outdated with modern shoes?

[InfiniteLoop]

In ITF, When you stop with the heel in the center, the leg is supposed to swing straight. Yet even in World championships, they sometimes chamber these, as if it was a hook kick. And that includes the poster of the clip.

See here below...

 

[InfiniteLoop]

The reason that this technique is supposed to be unchambered is because it is swung like a log, wheras the reverse hook is a whipping motion, thus using a chamber....

These guys at elite forms events still confuse the techniques

 

[Earl Weiss]

That's circular reasoning. The instructor needs an authority to know himself what he teaches is correct. And he can't get it from his instructor since that instructor has the same issue with his instructor.

Instructors typically belong to groups such as the "ITF" and those groups either have a technical committee or technical director and that is who they should look to if their respective instructor does not have an answer.

 

[Earl Weiss]

This is not about what you do or what your instructor says. There are two reverse roundhouse kicks in TaeKwonDo, one is chambered, one isn't.

This is not correct. There are not "two reverse roundhouse kicks" in fact there is nothing by that name. There is a reverse turning kik which specifies straight leg and a reverse hook kick where leg is bent. See post # 226.

 

[Earl Weiss]

In ITF, When you stop with the heel in the center, the leg is supposed to swing straight. Yet even in World championships, they sometimes chamber these, as if it was a hook kick. And that includes the poster of the clip.

See here below...

So you have discovered that even at world championships some people are not technically accurate?

 

[Earl Weiss]

That's circular reasoning. The instructor needs an authority to know himself what he teaches is correct. And he can't get it from his instructor since that instructor has the same issue with his instructor.

Another reason to attend IICs . To address what perhaps your instructor or even there instructor does not know.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

So you have discovered that even at world championships some people are not technically accurate?

This particular fault is due to poor systematization in the ITF, not inability of the practitioner.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

and a reverse hook kick where leg is bent. See post # 226.

That is incorrect. The Reverse hook kick has the leg bent at initiation and recoil, not at point of impact. The leg is fully extended at impact.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Another reason to attend IICs . To address what perhaps your instructor or even there instructor does not know.

I had a GM instructor and technical advisor appointed by the ITF. Hence why I can point out these flaws that are glaring

 

[dvcochran]

This is not correct. There are not "two reverse roundhouse kicks" in fact there is nothing by that name. There is a reverse turning kik which specifies straight leg and a reverse hook kick where leg is bent. See post # 226.

Sir, do you ever reference a rear leg kick (non spinning/turning) as a 'reverse kick'? Just curious.
It is not common but I have heard the term used in reference to a rear leg kick, similar to saying 'reverse punch'.

 

[Earl Weiss]

That is incorrect. The Reverse hook kick has the leg bent at initiation and recoil, not at point of impact. The leg is fully extended at impact.

According to who?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I had a GM instructor and technical advisor appointed by the ITF. Hence why I can point out these flaws that are glaring

Please note that when I referenced "Your instructor" it was NOT in relation to you and your instructor but a generic use of the term "You" in response to the comment you made "The instructor needs an authority to know himself what he teaches is correct. And he can't get it from his instructor since that instructor has the same issue with his instructor." The answer to your critique of circular reasoning was that if the instructor did not know, and their instructor did not know there are other resources to provide the answer. .

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sir, do you ever reference a rear leg kick (non spinning/turning) as a 'reverse kick'? Just curious.
It is not common but I have heard the term used in reference to a rear leg kick, similar to saying 'reverse punch'.

Sir, the terminology I use is what the text contains, not my reference . I adopt the terminology for ease of reference to those who use the system. Across the system "Reverse " is often used to mean opposite of the the other one. Example -Knifehand is the Pinky side of the hand and thumb side is reverse Knifehand. Footsword is the small toe side of the foot and reverse footsword is the large toe side. Turning kick is what many would call a roundhouse and the kick going the opposite way is reverse turning but with straight leg, and the similar kick flexing the knee is reverse hooking. Granted it's not perhaps the best all around naming convention but it's widely understood and used by those who train the system. By the way we also have obverse punch same hand as lead foot an reverse punch which is the opposite hand, Similarly other hand techniques use this convention as well where the rear foot side is performing the technique (In a stance where weight is equally distributed between your feet) but the you have the anomaly of this for things where more weight is on the rear foot and since the stance is named for the side (Right or left) with the most weight a right foot back L stance is a Right L Stance and a Right or rear hand technique is obverse since it is the side the stance is named for. Yep, it's goofy.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Sir, the terminology I use is what the text contains, not my reference . I adopt the terminology for ease of reference to those who use the system. Across the system "Reverse " is often used to mean opposite of the the other one. Example -Knifehand is the Pinky side of the hand and thumb side is reverse Knifehand. Footsword is the small toe side of the foot and reverse footsword is the large toe side. Turning kick is what many would call a roundhouse and the kick going the opposite way is reverse turning but with straight leg, and the similar kick flexing the knee is reverse hooking. Granted it's not perhaps the best all around naming convention but it's widely understood and used by those who train the system. By the way we also have obverse punch same hand as lead foot an reverse punch which is the opposite hand, Similarly other hand techniques use this convention as well where the rear foot side is performing the technique (In a stance where weight is equally distributed between your feet) but the you have the anomaly of this for things where more weight is on the rear foot and since the stance is named for the side (Right or left) with the most weight a right foot back L stance is a Right L Stance and a Right or rear hand technique is obverse since it is the side the stance is named for. Yep, it's goofy.

The hook version is also called reverse turning kick in the encyclopedia

 

[Earl Weiss]

The hook version is also called reverse turning kick in the encyclopedia

If that is what your edition says it is a mistake. First Edition 1983 Vol IV page 72.
"Reverse Hooking Kick
This is a variation of the reverse turning kick, and has a dual purpose; one is to kick, and the other is to hook the opponent who moves in during the execution of kicking.

Basic principles to be born in mind:
1. Bring the heel close to the body soon after the kick.
2. Bend the kicking leg properly during the kick. "

The terms are distinct and used to specify one or the other, not either one.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

According to who?

According to its own principles. You can't hook without extension. It doesn't have to be hyperextended like the reverse turning kick, but straight enough. Sort of like the straightness of a leg when you walk.

When everybody I've seen at a high level do it, they extend it to the fullest.

 

[Earl Weiss]

According to its own principles. You can't hook without extension. It doesn't have to be hyperextended like the reverse turning kick, but straight enough. Sort of like the straightness of a leg when you walk.

When everybody I've seen at a high level do it, they extend it to the fullest.

To refresh the issue the above is a response to the following:

InfiniteLoop said:
That is incorrect. The Reverse hook kick has the leg bent at initiation and recoil, not at point of impact. The leg is fully extended at impact.

According to who?

So, your conclusion is based on your wealth of experience. At the end of the day we may be quibbling about what constitutes "Fully extended" Less than a 5 degree bend or something else. Not really important.

 

[dvcochran]

According to its own principles. You can't hook without extension. It doesn't have to be hyperextended like the reverse turning kick, but straight enough. Sort of like the straightness of a leg when you walk.

When everybody I've seen at a high level do it, they extend it to the fullest.

Are sure you are not thinking about a wheel kick?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Are sure you are not thinking about a wheel kick?

Sir, not directed to me buy the Chang Hon "reverse turning kick" is probably what is most like what is often called a "Wheel Kick" or spinning heel kick. Watched a Walker Texas Ranger and he seemed favor those a bit.

 

[dvcochran]

Sir, not directed to me buy the Chang Hon "reverse turning kick" is probably what is most like what is often called a "Wheel Kick" or spinning heel kick. Watched a Walker Texas Ranger and he seemed favor those a bit.

I miss Walker.