Internal Power 2

[Dudi Nisan]

Liu Kangyi



Liu Kangyi is now the No.1 authority on the history and culture of Chinese martial arts. No less. He is a researcher, an author, a book collector, and a publisher. His Lion Books Publishing company is well known among practitioners of Chinese martial arts.

I originally approached him because he was a scholar. I had some question to ask him about the Yijinjing, or Tendon Transformation Classic, a late Ming body-cultivation manual which he wrote about. Over time we became close, but as far as I knew he was not a martial arts practitioner, “only” a martial arts researcher-collector-publisher.

Now, it did seem seemed unusual, to say the least, that a person so passionate about martial arts to devote his life to their research does not practice any martial art himself. It was strange. But I kind of assumed that some people are simply interested in scholarship but not in actual practice. So I was very surprised when he told me that he was teaching internal power (I was not the only one: one of our class members, a man in his fifties, and with 40 years’ experience in Crane Fist, could not tell that the man he was buying books from was also an internal power expert. He told me ‘I was buying books from him. I thought he was just a publisher. Little did I know he mastered internal power’).

As far as I was concerned then Liu Kangyi was a scholar. He even looks like a scholar—quite lean, with glasses, by no means muscular, nor even especially athletic. The masters I trained with, on the other hand, looked like gongfu masters—they were muscular, athletic, fast and powerful. Yet none of them had internal power, nor did any of them claim possess such a power. So when he told me he was teaching internal power I simply shut him off. I simply ignored what he said (We were close, so out of politeness I said nothing and changed the subject of our conversation). “What does he, a non-practitioner, know about internal power?” I thought. The whole thing was just very odd.

I think that it also bothered me (though I was not completely aware of it at the time) that it was just thrown in front of me, so to speak. Internal power, were such a thing to really exist, should have been a secret. You were supposed to intentionally look for it, and find it (if you find it at all), after a long and arduous journey (as when, after crossing all the rivers and lakes, and climbing most of China’s mountains, you encounter a true immortal at some remote mountain pass. At night.). Internal power, so I taught, was not something presented you, just like that, even while being taught in straightforward manner, and in the midst of a busy city.

I was not only surprised that Liu was teaching internal power openly but also disappointed (There is something captivating, something intriguing, about the word “secret”. It’s enchanting. How many styles of gongfu are known to have been “secretly transmitted”, or “taught in secret”? And how much of our own most cherished expectations and hopes we project onto those arts?).

And if internal power was not a secret, so was my line of thought, than it should at least be associated with a certain style—it should be the result of practicing a certain style of gongfu. It requires, at the least, a long and careful initiation, it demands the guidance and supervision of an established master. Yet Liu Kangyi does not teach any style. He did not even learn a specific style (not in its entirety anyway). So how come he has internal power while so many (if not all) established masters don’t?

There is an answer to this question, and I will try and address it in future posts. But for now I’ll settle by telling you of what happened during my subsequent meeting with Liu. Well, we were chatting and drinking tea when Liu suddenly stood up and gently invited me to cross hands with him. And that was it! It was unmistakable. I have never felt anything like that before. I practiced Taijiquan, Shaking Crane and Baguazhang (with the masters of both Shaking Crane and Baguazhang very fast and powerful), and I crossed hands with masters from China, Hong-Kong and Taiwan, yet Liu’s ability was distinct. It was just something else.





A Note to gongfu practitioners:



I don’t think that internal power can be learned very quickly. I still cannot generate this power. However, don’t think that you have to stay in Taipei for a long period either. It would probably help, but it is not necessary. For two reasons: first, the main thing is not to master this skill but to feel what internal power is and to learn the (simple) internal power exercises Liu teaches.

You need to “feel” internal power so as to know what to look for in your own practice. You can feel it the minute you attend class. True, you need to feel it several times, so attend several classes. But that is enough. And you need to learn the exercises so that you can practice on your own. Since these exercises are quite simple you’ll be able to learn them quickly.

Second, in some of the exercises Liu teaches you’d have to “push out” your lumbar spine (the purpose of which is the “creation” a bow-shaped spine). This is not something you can do intensely, over and over, in the same way you learn a gongfu form. Pushing the lumbar spine is dangerous (this is something you should really consider) and you should neither force it “out” nor engage in this exercise intensely.

So a short visit is best: you come, experience internal power, learn the (internal power) exercises, and do not overuse your lumbar spine.



Here is Liu Kangyi, at his bookstore, demonstrating some of his internal power exercises:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHg2qRPM7bk&feature=youtu.be

 

[Dudi Nisan]

more videos of Liu:

 

[Dudi Nisan]

It is not either-or, it is both-and.

It is a mistake to think, or assume, that one has to choose between internal power or traditional gongfu. I would never give up Baguazhang, for example. And there is no need to either.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You'd like the silly woman who tried to convince us that HER art could teach the blind to see. Equal silliness.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Happy Chinese New Year!

 

[Dudi Nisan]

“I used to think that martial arts were physical in nature, now I understand that martial arts are more about the transformation of the mind. What we emphasize is using cognition to transform our inertia, using inertia to transform our power, and using our power to transform our bodies.”

Liu Kangyi explaining internal power theory in the short video above.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Is it possible to traverse the same path but reach a different (but not the desirable) destination?

When it comes to power (including internal power) this is possible. Some teachers have cultivated the ability to generate great power, and others (fewer in number) have managed to generate internal power. Yet, according to our experience, none of them actually knew how they came to possess such a power. They were not secretive. They were willing to tell their students exactly what they did; they were willing to describe all their training methods. That is, they were willing to draw a map of the road they have (figuratively) traversed.

Thus, the students of those masters had one option, and one option only--all they could do was try and traverse the same road; their only option was to follow their master’s training regimen to the hilt. Some students really tried. Yet they never reached the peak (of power/internal power) their master did.



This is something to think about.

 

[mograph]

Not every realization can be arrived at through an algorithmic (step-by-step) process. Such processes might be useful for well-defined problems, but I suggest that the cultivation of internal power is an ill-defined problem because:

• at the level of individual interpretation of internal physical phenomena (e.g. tiny changes sensed through proprioception), individual differences are great,
• we have not yet devised a way to sense and share others' internal sensations to create a common description of those sensations.

Ill-defined problems are often defined as insight problems, and require techniques such as incubation (e.g. not thinking about the problem for a while) and paradigm shifts in order to solve those problems.

The problem is especially great for those who insist that all problems are algorithmic, and can be solved with a step-by-step process.

As a result ... this sort of thing is hard to teach and hard to grasp.

 

[oaktree]

My teacher let out a fart and clearly Knocked me back his manipulation of his qi when asked how can I cultivate this as well he handed me a can of beans.

 

[mograph]

Fartqi is very powerful. It must not be held in; to do so leads to illness.
No, it must be expressed as fartjin.

You should consider yourself lucky he wasn't using full power.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Now, it did seem seemed unusual, to say the least, that a person so passionate about martial arts to devote his life to their research does not practice any martial art himself.

- MA is for doing. MA is not for talking.
- MA is what you can do with your body. MA is not what exist inside your head.
- It doesn't matter whether you can write a book with 500 techniques. What matter is if you can use 1 technique well in fighting.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Not every realization can be arrived at through an algorithmic (step-by-step) process.

You are probably right, but if you are following a teacher and wishes to achieve what he had achieved what else can you do?

at the level of individual interpretation of internal physical phenomena (e.g. tiny changes sensed through proprioception), individual differences are great,

I am not talking of interpretation. Internal power is a palpable physical phenomena. I am not talking about the teacher's interpretation of his ability but about the training methods that got him to that peak.

The thing is that those teachers did so many things, and over so many years, that they simply cannot tell what was it that enabled them to generate such power. All they can tell you is "I started with style X in which we did exercise Y" etc.

MA is for doing. MA is not for talking

I do not know why you say so. What if you did not get something (from your teacher's explanations)? what if he is not certain about certain points? what if he does not know? so many things are lost in transmission (and many teachers admit it) that we have no choice but to ask questions. systematically. painstakingly.

 

[mograph]

You are probably right, but if you are following a teacher and wishes to achieve what he had achieved what else can you do?

Well, you might have to focus not on what teacher has achieved, but what you can achieve. It might be described, or arrived at, completely differently. All you can do is follow, experiment, sense, incubate, repeat.

I am not talking of interpretation. Internal power is a palpable physical phenomena. I am not talking about the teacher's interpretation of his ability but about the training methods that got him to that peak.

Apologies -- maybe "perception," not "interpretation" is a better word. Yes, it is real, but not all of us interpret or perceive our sensation of it the same way.

 

[Xue Sheng]

- MA is for doing. MA is not for talking.
.

Which then begs the question, why are you, or any of us, here talking about it

 

[O'Malley]

Dudi, I am still puzzled by the videos. I see solo exercises and theories aimed to achieve a "peak", as you say.

What is this "peak" though? In other words, what concrete things can Master Liu do after practicing this way?

Is there a video where we can see him demonstrate internal power? Where we can see the results of his training?

It would be easier to figure out what you mean by "internal power" if he did an actual demonstration of it with a partner:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which then begs the question, why are you, or any of us, here talking about it

he was not a martial arts practitioner, “only” a martial arts researcher-collector-publisher.

We talk about how to

- throw a punch,
- deliver a kick,
- apply a joint lock, and
- execute a throw.

We talk about what we can do. At lease we do train MA and not "scholars". If you don't vote, you should not talk about politics. I strongly believe in that.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think the discussion of internal power always gets muddied with poetic and imprecise language. You see people talk about "relaxed" energy as opposed to "muscular tension."

Here's the scoop, though. Telekinesis does not exist. Human movement and power only comes from two sources. The primary source is muscles contracting (with other muscles relaxing so as not to impede the resulting movement). The secondary source is gravity. Gravity can produce downwards movement and can also produce a lateral vector of force if a body is braced in an unbalanced fashion.

That's it. There is no more. A body with all its muscles fully contracted under tension will be locked in place. A body with all its muscles fully relaxed will fall to the floor and not move. (Both bodies will quickly die of heart failure. If we exclude cardiac muscle, then both bodies will shortly suffocate due to an inability to breathe.)

When we see a highly skilled martial artist* generate a lot of power with seemingly little effort there is no magic involved. It means the practitioner has trained their nervous system to fire off the signals for contracting and relaxing specific muscles in such a precise sequence as to produce the maximum result with the least effort. Leverage, alignment, activating only the muscles groups which assist the movement at the correct instant, inhibiting muscle groups which would impede the movement, using gravity advantageously - all these are produced by this precise sequencing.

When you add another person into the mix, you can produce even more impressive effects by applying this force at just the right place and time and angle relative to the other persons position, movement, and readiness. Once again, this is just physics applied with precision and skill, not any mysterious force unique to a certain system or culture.

If you want to call this high level of skill in applied body mechanics "internal power", that's fine with me. Alternately, maybe you want to use "internal arts" as a label for styles which approach developing this skill through a certain type of pedagogy. That's cool too. Just don't try to convince me that "internal power" is something mysterious which can only be learned from a obscure master on another continent. Muscles contract, gravity pulls downwards. That's how we move.

*(It's not limited to martial artists either - highly skilled athletes, dancers, etc can develop this same skill.)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you can use in fighting, that's high skill. If you can't, that's low skill.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think the discussion of internal power always gets muddied with poetic and imprecise language. You see people talk about "relaxed" energy as opposed to "muscular tension."

Here's the scoop, though. Telekinesis does not exist. Human movement and power only comes from two sources. The primary source is muscles contracting (with other muscles relaxing so as not to impede the resulting movement). The secondary source is gravity. Gravity can produce downwards movement and can also produce a lateral vector of force if a body is braced in an unbalanced fashion.

That's it. There is no more. A body with all its muscles fully contracted under tension will be locked in place. A body with all its muscles fully relaxed will fall to the floor and not move. (Both bodies will quickly die of heart failure. If we exclude cardiac muscle, then both bodies will shortly suffocate due to an inability to breathe.)

When we see a highly skilled martial artist* generate a lot of power with seemingly little effort there is no magic involved. It means the practitioner has trained their nervous system to fire off the signals for contracting and relaxing specific muscles in such a precise sequence as to produce the maximum result with the least effort. Leverage, alignment, activating only the muscles groups which assist the movement at the correct instant, inhibiting muscle groups which would impede the movement, using gravity advantageously - all these are produced by this precise sequencing.

When you add another person into the mix, you can produce even more impressive effects by applying this force at just the right place and time and angle relative to the other persons position, movement, and readiness. Once again, this is just physics applied with precision and skill, not any mysterious force unique to a certain system or culture.

If you want to call this high level of skill in applied body mechanics "internal power", that's fine with me. Alternately, maybe you want to use "internal arts" as a label for styles which approach developing this skill through a certain type of pedagogy. That's cool too. Just don't try to convince me that "internal power" is something mysterious which can only be learned from a obscure master on another continent. Muscles contract, gravity pulls downwards. That's how we move.

*(It's not limited to martial artists either - highly skilled athletes, dancers, etc can develop this same skill.)

This is very similar to the explanation I give when teaching "ki". I still use the term "ki", because it's a familiar shorthand, but I teach it as a combination of tension, relaxation, and structure. I still use a lot of the "extend your ki" language, because that feeling of extending energy tends to get people to create the right relaxed tension.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I still use a lot of the "extend your ki" language, because that feeling of extending energy tends to get people to create the right relaxed tension.

Yeah, sometimes the poetic metaphor works better practically for conveying the necessary feeling than the scientifically accurate analytic explanation. I have no problem with that as long as people don't start taking the metaphor literally or using the poetry to obscure rather than communicate.