Why do police carry it?
Interesting self defence weapon...
- Thread starter Satt
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Here's an update...
I got the ring in the mail about 4 days ago. It was a bit bulky, but it wasn't too bad. It is VERY easy to use. I got the silver one. You wear it on your pointer finger. With your thumb you slide down a safety and push a button. The blast lasted for 2 seconds and I am sure the tree I sprayed was crying on the inside. It sprayed about 2-3 feet. I like the ring. I think it is somewhat practical. I just wish it was a little less bulky. Overall I think it could be usefull though. Hope this info helps.
I got the ring in the mail about 4 days ago. It was a bit bulky, but it wasn't too bad. It is VERY easy to use. I got the silver one. You wear it on your pointer finger. With your thumb you slide down a safety and push a button. The blast lasted for 2 seconds and I am sure the tree I sprayed was crying on the inside. It sprayed about 2-3 feet. I like the ring. I think it is somewhat practical. I just wish it was a little less bulky. Overall I think it could be usefull though. Hope this info helps.
arnisador said:
Mostly for use on "non-compliant non-violent suspects" to quote ASLET. When they feel that they are in danger of being seriously injured or killed they are taught to escalate to lethal force.
It might be more accurate to say that pepper spray doesn't work on everyone and when it doesn't, you're up a creek unless you have a good plan B.tellner said:
I'd also be curious about the feasibility. I'm not sure that particular setup would be easy to aim accurately. I'd also like to get my hands on one and examine the spray pattern, ease of reload and run it through a metal detector.
As to wearing a ring on an index finger, I see people doing this all the time - question is, does it look like a cheap piece of jewelry? Might be a dead giveaway.
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shesulsa said:
So true. I think of it as a DISTRACTION that buys me a split second to either run, if possible, or launch a low sidekick (if warranted by the level of force). The scenario that I don't think a person ever wants to get into is pulling it, aiming it, but not firing immediately and using it as a threat - giving the assailant time to prepare, cover or pull a MORE effective weapon. To have any utility, IMO, it must be a surpise attack (or counter).
I am with Jonathan on this. You might have to be quick on those refillsJonathan Randall said:
Or you could get one ring for the first two fingers of each hand. Then you would have 4 tries! Could get that bling look going.
:lol2:Bigshadow said:
I don't see anything that says it marks the recipient in any way either - that might be worth it if it will spray a UV dye or irridescence or something. If you miss the eyes directly there might be overspray to mark the bad guy.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
you could get one ring for the first two fingers of each hand. Then you would have 4 tries!
Why don't you get 4, wear them all on one hand, and then just punch the guy!
I used to be a moderate fan of OC. Right up until the first time I got sprayed with the special for-cops-only-not-for-sale-to-mere-civilians variety. I wasn't enraged, wasn't drugged, wasn't expecting it and didn't have my intention set. It hurt, but not as bad as cutting habaneros without gloves, much less going to the bathroom afterwards without washing hands. :vu: I couldn't see very well. But well enough to extricate myself, tell the cameraman to keep filming without me, walk about a hundred feet to the drinking fountain and start washing my eyes.
So I started doing some research. The incredible people at Modern Warrior have done extensive research over the last 15 years on OC and found it just plain does not work on motivated, goal-oriented attackers. Other research through the Berkeley PD and others has borne that conclusion out. A few years back the FTC socked MSI Mace with a huge fine for deceptive and fraudulent advertising and forced them to print a letter of retraction stating that it doesn't work to stop violent attackers. One Alaska state trooper figured out how to make it work in bad situations. But you have to be able to completely discharge the whole cylinder into the bad guy's mouth.
Given all that, it's criminal to recommend it as a tool to save someone's life during a violent crime which is how it's usually marketed.
So I started doing some research. The incredible people at Modern Warrior have done extensive research over the last 15 years on OC and found it just plain does not work on motivated, goal-oriented attackers. Other research through the Berkeley PD and others has borne that conclusion out. A few years back the FTC socked MSI Mace with a huge fine for deceptive and fraudulent advertising and forced them to print a letter of retraction stating that it doesn't work to stop violent attackers. One Alaska state trooper figured out how to make it work in bad situations. But you have to be able to completely discharge the whole cylinder into the bad guy's mouth.
Given all that, it's criminal to recommend it as a tool to save someone's life during a violent crime which is how it's usually marketed.
Drac said:
No, it isn't. I've taken a look at what's available to police, corrections and on the general market. Half the stuff you guys carry is the same sort of stuff - Punch II and the like - that you can get at any good self-defense/security store. And even if it were, the research has mostly been on the special police-only stuff. It's great if Bubba doesn't want to get in the car. It's good for non-violent protestors. It's great for some things.
It shouldn't even be Plan Q for defense against a violent criminal who wants to hurt or kill you. Odds are the bad guy has been sprayed with it before if he's had a lot of runins with the law. It won't be much of a surprise.
OK, I'm confused....do LEOs carry higher-concentration pepper spray/mace than civilians, or no?
sgtmac_46
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arnisador said:
No, you can purchase the same products (for the most part) in the same concentrations. However, most civilian suppliers don't carry the same quality for some reason, probably the fact that the quality asked for by repeat law enforcement business cost more than the kind of questionable quality sold to the public on one-time sales. Police are more demanding, and quality costs more.
Some companies to look at when buying for self-defense that I have had experience with.
Fox Labs (My first choice in OC spray)
Zirc (An excellent company)
Sabre
Bodyguard
Punch
There are some others out there that are good, but I haven't had first hand experience with them.
You may come across First Defense sprays. They make a quality dispenser, but I have issues with the strength of the OC spray. I've experienced First Defense Products first hand, and they wouldn't stop me if I had a hangover. A buddy of mine and I used to spray it in our mouths to demonstrate it's (in)effectiveness. I've seen FD fail to effect too many suspects for me to put my faith in it. In their defense, First Defense has marketed a stronger product in the law enforcement market, which I have not been exposed to yet. It may be that they have corrected the deficiencies of their past formulation, and it may be a very effect OC Spray.
Again, OC Sprays should only be part of your strategy, never put all your faith in a single tool or technique. Never anticipate incapacitation, or even a reaction at all. Also, OC is best applied with deception, so as to gain maximum surprise and get the most product in the attackers eyes. In other words, don't shake the can so he can see it as a kind of ward against attack. If you have a good quality product, it will work most of the time. But don't become so reliant that if it doesn't work as you envision, don't be caught off guard.
Think of OC Spray as a distractor, not a fight finisher, and use it accordingly. If it works, and they retreat or are incapacitated, great. If it doesn't work or only partially works, go to plan B (and C, D, E and F if necessary). OC Spray may not end the fight for you, but it can give you an advantage. Even if the suspect is still fighting, he will likely be reduced in capacity (i.e. impaired vision, breathing, intense burning pain) use this to your advantage.
arnisador said:
Has it become precious to you?
Seriously, though, for a trained MAist, this little thing could be a great weapon. The pepper spray may not take your opponent out, but it may weaken their ability to fight effectively. Kind of like sand in the eyes.
tellner said:
I have never done any actual research on the stuff that civilians buy..So you're probably right..
tellner said:
You are correct..That's what the baton and the hours invested in training are for..
I encourage everyone who buys pepper spray to test it out. I bought some that just hit the shelves and took it home to test it. What a disappoinment - spray was less than four feet, very spattered and the entire canister was exhausted in seven seconds. Would be great if I wanted to put it on my food ....
That said, I'm sure other brands than the one I purchased (or the ones hubby has purchased for me) are far better. I've seen pepper spray blast about 12 feet to effectively cover a decent size spot on a tree with good force and spread.
That said, I'm sure other brands than the one I purchased (or the ones hubby has purchased for me) are far better. I've seen pepper spray blast about 12 feet to effectively cover a decent size spot on a tree with good force and spread.
Testing it out is good advice. If nothing else, spray it against a wall, then walk parallel to the wall, through the mist that remains. Not the same as a full-on blast, but it'll give you some idea what it can do, as well as how far it sprays, how it spreads, etc.
And make sure you're upwind! :ultracool
I've got to admit, we had an excellent result with OC in one of our women's self defense classes.
There was a willie-wagger in the library. He'd stand in the stacks, push books out so he could, err, see and be seen and pleasure himself at women studying alone.
We pointed out to the young women that OC also has a long-lasting dye. They took to hunting for the guy in packs (after promising us both ears and the tail), and he left.
There was a willie-wagger in the library. He'd stand in the stacks, push books out so he could, err, see and be seen and pleasure himself at women studying alone.
We pointed out to the young women that OC also has a long-lasting dye. They took to hunting for the guy in packs (after promising us both ears and the tail), and he left.
