Instructor Titles

[MBuzzy]

I have noticed and have actually been told by several Kodanja that there is a very distinct difference between very specific ways of addressing instructors.

The traditional title in Korean for an Instuctor is Sa Bom Nim, of course there are other titles, depending on the rank of your instructor and your organization. The "Nim" is also obviously the honorific term of respect, so depending on the context and your rank, the "nim" can stay or go. I'm wondering if others have run into this distinction as well.

What I'm talking about:
_________, Sa Bom Nim
Sa Bom Nim ___________
Master ___________
(Insert the last name of the instructor in question in the blank)

So has anyone ever heard of a distinction between the 3? Are there other ways that you use to address your instructor (aside from sir or different titles, such as Jo Kyo, Kyo Sa, etc)?

While I was in Korea, my instructor there allowed me to use them interchangeably and told me that they were all the same as far as he was concerned. In the US, I have heard from several different people, yudanja and kodanja alike that there is a specific difference, in fact, down to the level of: Use "Sa Bom Nim _______" for YOUR instructor, use "_________, Sa Bom Nim" for OTHER instructors and use "Master __________" for a Kodanja who is not a certified Sa Bom Nim.

 

[JoelD]

Ive never been told that there is a distinction between any of those. When im speaking to a senior regardless of rank i always just use sir/ma'am whether it be my own instructor or the Grandmaster. When i refer to them in the third person i will sometimes say Sa Bom Nim, and sometimes Master depending on the situation. If i don't know them i will use Master since, as Craig stated above, some Kodanja are not certified Sa Boms and i am not always aware of their certifications. Generally the most consistant use of an honorific that i am exposed to is during the opening and closing of class and then the "Nim" is always retainined. So, at the beinning of class we will bow once to the lead instructor then at the end of class we will bow once to the lead instructor of the class and then to the highest ranking individual in the class (as long as they are at least a Yudanja). Again in this case the Nim is always used.... i.e.: Sa Bom Nim, Kyo Sa Nim, Jo Kyo Nim, Sun Beh Nim...

Actually i think in the back of the USSBDMDKF gup manulas it explains some of this... i will have to take a look when i get home.

 

[CDKJudoka]

In our Dojang they have different titles depending on you Dan rank.

For example:

1st Dan: Sen Seung (Nim)
2nd Dan: Bu Kyo Sa (Nim)
3rd Dan: Kyo Sa (Nim)
4th Dan: Bu Sa Bum (Nim)
5th Dan: Sa Bum (Nim)

 

[DMcHenry]

This should be obvious, but our western ways here in the US is to use title then sirname, whereas in the east they use sirname then title. Koreans also say their last first-middle name (or last, first middle).

I've asked some higher ranking members about this before, asking if they prefer the last name title order, and their response was "we're here in America, so just use title last name".

 

[MBuzzy]

In our Dojang they have different titles depending on you Dan rank.

For example:

1st Dan: Sen Seung (Nim)
2nd Dan: Bu Kyo Sa (Nim)
3rd Dan: Kyo Sa (Nim)
4th Dan: Bu Sa Bum (Nim)
5th Dan: Sa Bum (Nim)

Understood - there are many different titles, just like in English...you can call someone "teacher," "Professor," "Instructor," "Assistant Instructor," "Department Head," and so on when referring to them in the third person or even directly in some cases.

So in your Dojang, is there a standard format not for the title that you use, but the way that it is used? Is it ALWAYS name first, then title? Or Title, then name? Do they allow the use of just "Master?"

 

[CDKJudoka]

So in your Dojang, is there a standard format not for the title that you use, but the way that it is used? Is it ALWAYS name first, then title? Or Title, then name? Do they allow the use of just "Master?"

More often than not we just use the title, unless it is the BB and Candidate class, then we use title then name.

 

[Joab]

When I took tae-kwon-do we referred to the teacher as "Mr" followed by his last name, might just be an American thing.

 

[MBuzzy]

That is done in a lot of schools that don't use the traditional Korean, so the title question doesn't really apply. the Korean equivalent of Mr. would just be sonsangnim - but ALWAYS with the surname first, then the title sonsangnim.

 

[JoelD]

We use Mr., Ms. Mrs. when addressing senior members who have no certification or other rank title. This applies to all people senior to us from gup level all the way to Sam Dan.

 

[MBuzzy]

We use Mr., Ms. Mrs. when addressing senior members who have no certification or other rank title. This applies to all people senior to us from gup level all the way to Sam Dan.

We do the same, although I find it odd that we use the Korean for some people (those with titles) and not for others - those without. I'm a big believer in one or the other....I think I'm going to start using sonsangnim and see what people say!

 

[JWLuiza]

I like my school.

Adults use first names. We don't use the title Master or Grandmaster at all. The kids will call us Mr./Ms. sometimes, but we don't make an issue.

 

[Montecarlodrag]

We use this terms daily:

Black Belt candidate to 1st DAN: Bo Kyo Sa Nim (assistant instructor).
2nd to 3rd DAN: Kyo Sa Nim (Instructor).
3rd DAN & candidate to 4th DAN: Bo Sa Bom Nim (Senior instructor)
4th to 6th DAN: Sa Bom Nim (Master Instructor).
Examiner/judge during a belt test: Shim Sa Nim (any DAN)
7th Dan or up: Kwang Chang Nim (Grand Master)

 

[seasoned]

Sensei has always worked, regardless of rank. :asian: You'll know who they are when they start teaching.

 

[JWLuiza]

Sensei has always worked, regardless of rank. :asian: You'll know who they are when they start teaching.

Sensei?

At a Korean martial arts class?

Generally a bad idea.

 

[seasoned]

Sensei?

At a Korean martial arts class?

Generally a bad idea.

Sorry, there are just so many TKD people on the board, and you guy's start most of the threads, I have to get my 2 cents in somewhere. I will try and stick to my own kind.

 

[MBuzzy]

We use this terms daily:

Black Belt candidate to 1st DAN: Bo Kyo Sa Nim (assistant instructor).
2nd to 3rd DAN: Kyo Sa Nim (Instructor).
3rd DAN & candidate to 4th DAN: Bo Sa Bom Nim (Senior instructor)
4th to 6th DAN: Sa Bom Nim (Master Instructor).
Examiner/judge during a belt test: Shim Sa Nim (any DAN)
7th Dan or up: Kwang Chang Nim (Grand Master)

Do you always call every instructor with their full title? Do you do it in the Korean way (name first, then title) or the American way (Title first then name)? Have you ever been told that there is a difference?

 

[terryl965]

For me they just say Sa Ba num, with everybody else it is sir or mam. The Korean termonology really means little in my school, but we use it for tournaments with other instructors thst need that recognition.

 

[MBuzzy]

Maybe this is a good place for this...

In case anyone is wondering, here is a list of titles that can be used in Korean. There may be more, if you know any more, please post them as well. I am still curious in the protocol of how you use them, but I figure we can get this out of the way!

Keep in mind - you may or may not use some of these terms. You may have never heard of them. The term "nim" (&#45784 should be added to every one of these when addressing your senior. (If there is no entry for the third category (Hanmun), it is because I haven't found the hanmun translation yet)

Romaja - Hangul - Hanmun - English
chido sabôm - 지도사범 - 指導師範 - Master
choboja - 초보자 - - Beginner
chodan - 초단 - 初段 - 1st Dan
cheongsa - 정사 - - senior master
doju - 도주 - - founder
hubae - 후배 - - junior
jokyo - 조교 - 助教 - assistant
jokyosa - 조교사 - 助教師 - assistant instructor person
kodanja - 고단자 - 高段者 - master, senior dan person
kwan weon - 관원 - - student member
kwanjang - 관장 - 館長 - head of school
kyobeom - 교범 - 敎範 - assistant of junior instructor
kyosa - 교사 - 教師 - instructor
moosulga - 무술가 - - martial arts student
pukyosa - 부교사 - - assistant instructor
pusabeom - 부사범 - 副師範 - assistant instructor
sabeom - 사범 - 師範 - instructor
seonsaeng - 선생 - - mister
shimsawon - 심사원 - - examiner
seonbae - 선배 - - senior
yudanja - 유단자 - 有段者 - midnight blue (black) belt holder
yugupja - 유급자 - - colored belt holder

 

[MBuzzy]

Notice that there are several ways to say the same thing. Take assistant instructor for example or instructor for that matter, there are at least four different ways to say them, each of which have a slightly different connotation and meaning in Korean. We use them interchangeably in America, but in Korea, they have very different meanings.

I should also emphasize that in Korea, the PROPER way to address someone is ALWAYS Name first, then title. In America, it is our cultural tradition to address someone as Title first, then name. There are apparently Americans that think that there is more to this cultural difference than there really is, which is why I'm asking how your schools do it.

If your school doesn't use much Korean, then it really won't be much of an issue. This is one issue where mixing Korean and English is a bit of a gray area. Since you are talking to a person, the culture that they come from comes into play. TECHNICALLY, the three ways that I have presented are exactly the same. No difference. We MAKE there be a difference.

I am still very interested in how your schools do it or if you have ever heard that there is some implied difference.

 

[JWLuiza]

Sorry, there are just so many TKD people on the board, and you guy's start most of the threads, I have to get my 2 cents in somewhere. I will try and stick to my own kind.

Not an attack and didn't mean it to come across that way. You just replied to a post in the Tang Soo Do section, not General.

Though there are some Korean schools that use Japanese terminology.