Importance of Sparring

[RavenDarkfellow]

Alright, in my dojo we don't spar at all. This is really frustrating to me. I realize we can't spar with techniques, as we'd be gouging eachother's eyes out, attacking eachothers' testicles, and breaking various limbs . . . however, it seems that sparring is really important. Every other martial art I've read about includes sparring, and even though we can't spar Kenpo techniques, we could still spar the basics, right?

I mean, you have to learn to control and handle yourself in a real-time fight, right? I mean sure, sparring isn't exactly like street confrontation, but it's a helluvalot better than doing nothing, right?

While I was receiving informal training from my uncle, he had my two cousins (his sons) and I sparring all the time. Now, in this formal martial art, there has been NO sparring whatsoever. Seriously, now, I used to be a full-contact guy! Is there seriously no room in Kenpo for sparring?

 

[dubljay]

Well I wouldn't say that you can not spar with techniques, I frequently use say Reversing Mace from the orange belt list. However when it comes to the downward kick to the back of the knee I either omit the kick and move on, or I will do a controlled take down as to not hurt their knee (i.e. a sweep of sorts).Or I will use Leaping Crane from purple belt, again omitting the kick to the knee as to not do serious damage to my partner. The school I attend sparing is something we don't do on a regular basis, but it is still important, and is a requirement to test for black.

Sparring is a very important learning atmosphere. The fight is at real time speed though the power depends on those who are sparring. I have a friend that likes to spar at 50-80% power, while others that prefer only light contact. Sparring developes reflexes that otherwise would be under developed. Sparring is a real time learning expereince, meaning you see the immedate consequences of your actions. For example you back up when being rushed... now you find yourself in the corner and being overwhelmed. Once you realize you have left yourself with no means of evading or countering you learn that going back may not always be the best choice, so you learn to side step or cut to the corners. You see the immedate results of your tactics. SD Techniques really dont develop that skill (IMO ... I have not been in martial arts or kenpo long enough to say that for certain). Sparring is the best way to learn what strikes work best in certain situations, like when you opponent is facing the same direction as you (open) or when you are belly to belly (closed). This also allows you to identify what your own personal body mechanics are for certain strikes and blocks. Again the most important aspect of sparring is the fact that it is a real time learning situation, there are consequences (both good and bad) for every action you take and you see the consequences as soon as you commit to a particualar action.

I would also like to state that I never spar in any sort of competitive way. I do not mean to dissrespect those who spar in tournaments or anything like that, I understand and value the concept there. However what I mean is that when I step onto the matts to spar with someone my goal is not in winning or losing. I am there to improve my skills, and help my partner imporve their skills. Learning cannot take place when there is a competition going on. Competition often gives motivation to improve our skills, but very little mutual learning happens. For example: there is little to no bennifit for an advanced student to spar a novice, simply to beat them. Certainally there will be some learning on the part of the novice student, but not as much as if the competitive nature was not there. The chances of the advanced student learning anything by simply beating novice students with the same handfull of techniques and their variants is not learning either. Having sparred with novice students in a non competitive situation not only did the novice learn as much as possible, I did too. This also leads into the topic of self confidence... but thats not for this thread.


Simply my opinion and I could be wrong

-Josh-

 

[redfang]

Sparring in some form or other has been part of every Kenpo studio that I have been familiar with. Where I originally trained, we sparred in the standard point style. That is kicking and punching only, tournament type sparring. Then our teacher retired and his replacement didn't go for this type of sparring. He calls it 'playing tag'. So now we add shootfighting and grappling in general, and spar in a mma fashion. My brother studied kenpo elsewhere and they spar in the former manner. To me it seems necessary to practice hitting and getting hit.

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Alright, in my dojo we don't spar at all. This is really frustrating to me. I realize we can't spar with techniques, as we'd be gouging eachother's eyes out, attacking eachothers' testicles, and breaking various limbs . . . however, it seems that sparring is really important. Every other martial art I've read about includes sparring, and even though we can't spar Kenpo techniques, we could still spar the basics, right?

I mean, you have to learn to control and handle yourself in a real-time fight, right? I mean sure, sparring isn't exactly like street confrontation, but it's a helluvalot better than doing nothing, right?

While I was receiving informal training from my uncle, he had my two cousins (his sons) and I sparring all the time. Now, in this formal martial art, there has been NO sparring whatsoever. Seriously, now, I used to be a full-contact guy! Is there seriously no room in Kenpo for sparring?

There's always room for it. You're missing out if it isn't in there.:asian:

 

[Ray]

IMO: Sparring is important. You can practice techniques and kata all day, but sparring is where you really get the flavor of making it all work. Gaging distance, timing, importance of speed and a whole lot of other things become apparent in sparring.

Now, there could be a big debate over what level of contact during sparring leads to real learning; and whether sparring is a poor substitute for real life encounters; but sparring is {generally} a safe way to learn a whole bunch about how to apply kenpo.

 

[lonekimono10]

Hello to all, just want to add this , in my school we do something called

"cat and mouse" think about it.

 

[ZKenpo]

Speaking of American Kenpo(I can not say for other styles) our art can be broken down into three divisions.

All basic fundamentals(blocks, kicks, stances, etc..) including forms which are comprised out of our basics.
These are the building blocks all of our techniques come from.

Reactionary training. Your self defense techniques.

Self defense techniques deal primaraly with spontaneous attacks that you were probobly not expecting. You may or may not see the entire attack coming, so it is important to drill techniques repeatedly. This repetition trains the body to move appropiately when attacked. (example) You were grabbed forcibly from behind, then before your mind can even think about it your body executes a technique such as Captured Twigs. It may take your brain two or three seconds to fully realize what just happened, however your body executed the technique in about 1.2 seconds.

Freestlye or sparring.

If you omit one of these areas from your training your ability to defend yourself will have some fairly large holes in it. While techniques train not only the mind but also the body to react appropriately to an attack, your freestyle will teach you to deal with a fighter. If you train solely with basics and self defense you will find yourself out of your element if forced to square off with a fighter.

Sparring can be an effective tool to teach a student how to safely bridge the gap between you and your opponent and manuever yourself into a position where a self defense technique could be applied. Also when dealing with a person who has some kind of training in martial arts, a purely physical attack may not be enough. Martial artists are trained to defeat physical attacks, so you must couple your physical movements with mental or psychological attacks.

This can be accomplished through the use of many various techniques such as, feints, shouting, making ugly faces, body gestures, eye gestures, etc...
Freestyleing can teach you to incorporate these additional concepts against an opponent in a controlled environment( your school) with real time results.

Thusly, sparring is about the best way to learn how to mentally dominate your opponent, making the execution of your physical attacks easier and more devastating to your opponent. To omit sparring from your training would be as foolish as omitting basics or self defense, they are all equally important and should be treated as such.


I will get off my soap box now, apologies if I talked your ears off, and thanks for reading the whole thing.

 

[RavenDarkfellow]

I completely agree with all of you. I get the feeling the primary reason my sensei omits sparring is because of the insurance. He's apparently having a hard time with just the RENT for the building (they keep jacking it up on him), so insurance for sparring purposes would probably be too much money. . . I think/hope that's the only reason.

 

[dubljay]

A cure for the insurance issue would be a liability waver or sorts. A written contract that states you can not hold the owner of the business and or landlord liable for injuries that take place in training.

There are obvious concerns with a waver like that, but if you trust the people you train with you shouldn’t have anything to fear. That and you should check the legality of such a contract before entering one (as always).

Just a thought though.

 

[DarrenJew]

Liability and contracts... are still risky. All it takes is one law suite to close a school down.

That being said: I believe sparring is very important, it can be done with proper training and equipment. Not only does it help you with your timing and technique, the most important part is anti-flinch. "Teach people not to close their eyes while sparing, especially when a punch is being delivered." Also video tape it for review after the practice is over. It’s good for everyone to witness their own bad habits so that they may try to correct them... Leaning back off balance while kicking, or not following up after a punch (throw one punch and stop... You don’t have to stop and pose... No one is going to take your picture in a real fight.)

Light sparing between close friends is easiest or between senior students, but sparing with beginners is a mistake. There are 2 types of new students, ones that are shy and may be insecure... if matched with an experienced sparring partner is ok... but the ones that have a chip on their shoulder, something to prove... big danger here they are planning to take your head off, and even the most experienced student may loose their cool and decide that this person needs a lesson... bam, broken nose, lost tooth, worst yet concussion, you have a law suite.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Light sparing between close friends is easiest or between senior students, but sparing with beginners is a mistake.

Sparring with beginners is not a mistake. Only you have to be extremely careful how you pair them up. They usually think they're safer sparring with other beginners, when in a normal environment is the opposite.

And if some of them is paired with a woman, they usually behave like asses and go with the stupidest of comments "but I can hurt her", even when sparring with brown or black belts.

But sparring with beginner, at least in my case, is a mix between trying to give them some advice and encouraging them. And by giving advice I usually end up learning/realizing something that I can apply to my training as well.

There are 2 types of new students, ones that are shy and may be insecure... if matched with an experienced sparring partner is ok... but the ones that have a chip on their shoulder, something to prove... big danger here they are planning to take your head off, and even the most experienced student may loose their cool and decide that this person needs a lesson... bam, broken nose, lost tooth, worst yet concussion, you have a law suite.

I couldn't agree more. And I would add a third category with those that doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't control their strikes. All they say afterwards is "It wasn't that hard, c'mon" and they mean it... until they get paired with another one of this type. End result is no one wants to train with them.

 

[Drifter]

Well, you could try to get some other people you feel comfortable with in your school to spar with you outside of class. You probably aren't the only one wanting to spar.

 

[dubljay]

Well, you could try to get some other people you feel comfortable with in your school to spar with you outside of class. You probably aren't the only one wanting to spar.

I would ONLY reccomend this under 3 conditions. 1) Under no circumstances should a group of novice people spar unsupervised, so if you wish to find training partners besure to have atleast one advanced belt that has plenty of sparring experience. 2) Once you have found partners lay down strict rules of contact and targets and play by those rules. There are rare times when friendly sparring turns into an all out fight. 3) ABOVE ALL ELSE CONSULT WITH YOUR INSTRUCTOR BEFORE ACTUALLY STARTING. You should explain why you wish to spar, and explain the rules you have chosen for contact and targets. I believe talking to your instructor should be done before finding training partners because there may be students that like to spar, but are unfit for it due to medical reasons, or will lose their cool.

 

[The Kai]

Sparring is a must, every Kenpo school usally has a strong history of sparring. You are missing something from your training if you don't spar

Todd

 

[Kenpoist]

I concur, sparring is an important part of ones training. You can develop your timing, balnce, coordination, speed and it is a good cardio workout.

We don't spar at my current school - we don't really even work on kicking and punching( hitting the heavy bag or shield), which can develop your power and accuracy.

Hopefully we will incorpaorate this into our school doen the line as it is a newly opened school.

 

[Seabrook]

This may sound harsh - but I suggest switching to a new school if the club you are at refuses to do sparring.

There must be consistent practice at BOTH sparring and self-defense techniques to truly learn how to defend yourself.

Instructors who only focus on Kenpo's techniques are second-guessing themselves. They give their students a false sense of security.

The best way to learn how to defend yourself is to fight (spar) with as many opponents as possible, of all sizes and shapes. I try to spar at least once or twice weekly. Doing so teaches me to respond to pressure, and how to take advantage and exploit an opponent's weakness.

 

[jdmills]

This may sound harsh - but I suggest switching to a new school if the club you are at refuses to do sparring.

There must be consistent practice at BOTH sparring and self-defense techniques to truly learn how to defend yourself.

Instructors who only focus on Kenpo's techniques are second-guessing themselves. They give their students a false sense of security.

The best way to learn how to defend yourself is to fight (spar) with as many opponents as possible, of all sizes and shapes. I try to spar at least once or twice weekly. Doing so teaches me to respond to pressure, and how to take advantage and exploit an opponent's weakness.

I frankly would not study at a school that does not spar. Yes, it is very important to be careful who spars with who and there are students that simply cannot spar with less experienced or capable students.

As said by SGM Parker "when pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that is pure karate."

On to the liability issue (since I am an attorney, I'm fairly qualified to opine on this). It is extremely important to have a well written liability waiver and an assumption of risk. This will protect the school to a large extent if sued but, equally importantly, it will inform students in no uncertain terms that they easily could be injured and will cause them to be much less likely to bring suit. That being said, it is still important for instructors to use common sense. A liability waiver probably will not prevent a suit if the instuctor is is negligent. Leaving students to spar unsupervised (for example) is a quick way to get sued since it is difficult to argue that it is not negligent. The effectiveness of liability waivers varies somewhat from state to state and it is important to speak with an attorney regarding this (I don't do this kind of work anymore so I am not advertising here). Costs should be minimal and it is a one time expenditure in any event.

Have a good liability waiver and do as much as possible to prevent claims of negligence and you will minimize your chances of being sued. Sparring is an absolute must in my opinion. Of course, that is Benny Urquidez with me in the picture above so I am a bit biased.

 

[Seabrook]

Good points Jim.

 

[DarrenJew]

Does insurance cover this type of thing? If it does what type of premiums would one expect to pay?

 

[The Kai]

Typically You need insureance for your school anyways, and they cover light sparring, so....