Impact Ninjutsu

[Shidoshi0153]

Hello,
There is another option for you. While I agree that Mr. Levy really has nothing to do with ninjutsu, I have created an online dojo for guys in your position. Check it out and see what you think. We cover all the ninjutsu principles with a modern day look at things. You may want to look into other dojos in the area and just use this as a supplement.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Most arts are effective. BUT you should consider the schools that are close to home, nearby.

Visit several or all the schools. Ask to watch and see how they are run, prices, hours and times available. ( fits your schedule).

You may even find one better than what your saw on TV.

You do NOT want wasting time for far traveling. Closer to home means more time for training, there will be times staying after regular classes can benifit you more. (extra training).

Try JUDO? ...it can be more then you think! ........Aloha

 

[Doc_Jude]

Hello,
There is another option for you. While I agree that Mr. Levy really has nothing to do with ninjutsu, I have created an online dojo for guys in your position. Check it out and see what you think. We cover all the ninjutsu principles with a modern day look at things. You may want to look into other dojos in the area and just use this as a supplement.

Is this serious?

 

[Shidoshi0153]

Yes, its serious. Very serious. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[kaizasosei]

you could also do the homestudycourse' of Richard van Donksensei.
i think it would be a good and recognized way to begin, learn and even eventually get official ranking.

maybe you should check it out.

j

 

[shesulsa]

Yes, its serious. Very serious. Why wouldn't it be?

I'm fairly certain you've been involved in debates regarding home training. If you'd like to know just how passionate some people are about it, I suggest you swing over to the Sword Arts area and do a search for Home Study there.

And on an official note:

We have an advertising forum here on MartialTalk. If you wish to hawk commercial wares, I suggest you look into it rather than doing so in open forum.

Thank you,

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator

 

[Doc_Jude]

So this Bansenshukai Ninjutsu. What are the Japanese sources for this art? The lineage, so to speak?

 

[Shidoshi0153]

I realize that lineage, especially ninjutsu lineage, seems to be an important topic these days. Seems to take precedence over the actual system itself. I don't understand this at all. Bottom line, if the system works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Can someone tell me the lineage of Boxing?

To answer your question, there is no lineage to Bansenshukai since it is a system I have created. I can tell you what has influenced the system though.

First and foremost, the actual Bansenshukai text, which a historically verifiable volume of works written in 1676 containing various strategies, techniques, principles, and tactics of Iga and Koga ninja. This is combined with other such texts such as the Shoninki and Ninpiden. These are the major influences for the skills set we implore.

As far as the taijutsu, it is influenced by Takamatsu-den kihon happo in many aspects. However, the taijutsu has been updated to meet modern day attacks. For example, we are heavily influenced by boxing in our striking methods and rarely use a forward lunge punch. We also have been heavily influenced by AJJ, as most x-kans don't even scratch the surface of ground fighting.

We have tried to make the best system we can which not only looks at all areas of conflict; striking, throwing, choking, joint-locks and breaks, ground fighting, etc. but we also require actual ninjutsu such as shinobi buki, hensojutsu, intonjutsu, etc. in each and every one of our kyu levels.

Our training also aims for a balanced regiment. We train slow and smooth, move into tai sabaki (free response) and randori.

Hope this answers your question. No lineage, we don't even pretend to be "traditional" ninjutsu, however, our entire curriculum is based on modern day, tried and true, principles and training methods.

 

[Mr. E]

First and foremost, the actual Bansenshukai text, which a historically verifiable volume of works written in 1676 containing various strategies, techniques, principles, and tactics of Iga and Koga ninja. This is combined with other such texts such as the Shoninki and Ninpiden. These are the major influences for the skills set we implore.

Can you read these texts? Can you even read them if you got your hands on them? They are written in centuries- old Japanese. Even stuff from the early 20th century is difficult for native speakers of Japanese to read. The few English translations running around of them are incomplete at nest, and there even seems to be a few complete fabrications passed off as translations.

And there is not a single mention of unarmed fighting in these texts.

You claim your system works. Prove it. Please show us the police reports of one of your students that has gone through your on-line training and credits it with helping them survive a violent encounter.

As I see it, you need to back up two claims- one that you have access to the ancient texts of ninjutsu and also that what you do works.

As for the idea of on-line training, we dealt with it.

Click here to see that no one with any real insight into the matter thought that it was good for anything other than making the teacher a bit wealthier.

 

[jks9199]

Click here to see that no one with any real insight into the matter thought that it was good for anything other than making the teacher a bit wealthier.

I'd still like to see a response to the question I asked there. I'll repeat it here:

Would an online police academy be an adequate substitute for the real thing?

 

[Doc_Jude]

I realize that lineage, especially ninjutsu lineage, seems to be an important topic these days. Seems to take precedence over the actual system itself. I don't understand this at all. Bottom line, if the system works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Can someone tell me the lineage of Boxing?

That's pretty easy actually, if the boxers are connected to licensed fighters, reputable gyms, and have fought in witnessed matches. Records of such event go back quite aways, both in Europe, the U.S., & other countries.

To answer your question, there is no lineage to Bansenshukai since it is a system I have created. I can tell you what has influenced the system though.

Huh. Well, thanks for being honest.

As far as the taijutsu, it is influenced by Takamatsu-den kihon happo in many aspects. However, the taijutsu has been updated to meet modern day attacks. For example, we are heavily influenced by boxing in our striking methods and rarely use a forward lunge punch. We also have been heavily influenced by AJJ, as most x-kans don't even scratch the surface of ground fighting.

What are your sources for the "Takamatsu-den kihon happo"? Do you understand the purpose of the forward lunge punch?

It's good to cross-train, too, I agree. What is "AJJ"? There are many groups with those initials.

Hope this answers your question. No lineage, we don't even pretend to be "traditional" ninjutsu, however, our entire curriculum is based on modern day, tried and true, principles and training methods.

Apart from Takamatsu-den resources, ancient Japanese documents, and the need to learn ninja weapons, disguise and stealth that you name after Japanese methods, of course.

I would say that you absolutely PRETEND. Right down to your tabi. You validate your use of the term Ninjutsu by referencing Japanese sources and yet invalidate them by your claim that they need to be "updated to meet modern day attacks".

That's okay, though. You've just taken what you like from Japanese sources and either supplement what you find ineffective, or replace what knowledge you lack, with modern striking & grappling methods. Cool. You're man enough to admit it. Most aren't.

 

[Shidoshi0153]

17 years in bujinkan budo taijutsu are my sources for the Takamatsu-den training.

AJJ = American jujutsu.

And no, we do NOT pretend at all. We use the principles derived from authenticated sources. We simply update them for modern relevence. Remember, techniques may change, principles do not. If you are using principles of the "ninja" then you are practicing ninjutsu.

And yes, I absolutely know the reason for a forward lunge punch. Just so happens the only armor I wear is a level IIA Xtreme vest which doesn't resemble samurai armor in the least.

 

[Doc_Jude]

17 years in bujinkan budo taijutsu are my sources for the Takamatsu-den training.

Who did you train with, if you don't mind me asking? Your website is rather sparse when it comes to actual training background.

AJJ = American jujutsu.

What particular association? A link perhaps?

And no, we do NOT pretend at all. We use the principles derived from authenticated sources. We simply update them for modern relevence. Remember, techniques may change, principles do not. If you are using principles of the "ninja" then you are practicing ninjutsu.

Do you find tabi to be relevent in this, the 21st century? & what particular techniques do you feel the need to update?

And yes, I absolutely know the reason for a forward lunge punch. Just so happens the only armor I wear is a level IIA Xtreme vest which doesn't resemble samurai armor in the least.

You think that this style of footwork is only applicable when wearing armor?
Hmmmm.....

 

[Mr. E]

17 years in bujinkan budo taijutsu are my sources for the Takamatsu-den training.

I see you have avoided my question about the Bansenshukai, Ninpiden and Shininki.

I am forced to conclude that you have bent the truth to sell your product.

I have to assume you are doing the same in regards to your training history. You may have started reading about ninjutsu 17 years ago and consider that the start of your training with only a few months of going to a dojo for all I know.

And no, we do NOT pretend at all. We use the principles derived from authenticated sources. We simply update them for modern relevence. Remember, techniques may change, principles do not. If you are using principles of the "ninja" then you are practicing ninjutsu.

If you think that ninjutsu can be taught by a video course, then I doubt you really have anything other than a superficial knowledge of the art. You seem to have no knowledge of the principles of the art. I happen to know that Masaaki Hatsumi, head of the Bujinkan, has said that you can't learn ninjutsu from videos. He has no video courses avaible, only reference works. Since you run counter to what he says and does, it is obvious that your knowledge is fairly low.

And yes, I absolutely know the reason for a forward lunge punch. Just so happens the only armor I wear is a level IIA Xtreme vest which doesn't resemble samurai armor in the least.

If you think it is merely to work against armour and you need to drop it for boxing punches, then your knowledge of ninjutsu is indeed very limited.

 

[Shidoshi0153]

Initially started out with Kurt Rittenhouse, matter of fact, Jeff Oechester started about two months after I did, he runs the Dayton Bujinkan. Very nice website if you want to check it out. From there I could list a variety of names, but it just seems a little too much like name dropping. But if you really want to know.....

AJJ= http://www.crawfordsmma.com/

I find the tabi to be extremelly relevent since they are the best mat shoes I can find, as long as you get the leather or suede bottoms. For outside, nothing better than a nice boot though.

The footwork of the forward lunge punch is a good principle with many applications. As far as the actual technique of a lunge punch......not so much. Do you honestly believe that a lunge punch is the only technique with which you use that footwork? Of course not.

 

[shesulsa]

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[Mr. E]

The footwork of the forward lunge punch is a good principle with many applications. As far as the actual technique of a lunge punch......not so much. Do you honestly believe that a lunge punch is the only technique with which you use that footwork? Of course not.

If you do not know the use of a simple punch well enough to pull it off in a real situation, that does not mean that others do not. Don't blame your lack of knowledge on the knowledge being outdated.

 

[Doc_Jude]

What was your highest rank in the Bujinkan & who awarded it to you & when?

Perhaps that is more to the point.

 

[Shidoshi0153]

Dr. Hatsumi, Godan, Washington D.C., Tai Kai, 2001.

And please, don't assume I have a lack of knowledge just because I disagree with you. That again shows ignorance.

Trust me, I have been in my fair share of resistings, seen more resistings, worked as a bouncer for a brief stint (definitely not something I am proud of) have have a plethora of experience in randori. Real randori, not free response. I have come to the conclusion that the lunge punch is severely overused in many training systems.

 

[Mr. E]

Dr. Hatsumi, Godan, Washington D.C., Tai Kai, 2001.

A very meager rank in the Bujinkan. And I assume that you never bothered to try to travel to Japan and seek out the better instruction that smalled classes with he and his senior teachers have before you decided to "improve" on it.

And please, don't assume I have a lack of knowledge just because I disagree with you. That again shows ignorance.

I know you have a lack of knowledge because you show a lack of knowledge.

I can either assume that Masaaki Hatsumi is wrong and you are right, or that you do not know enough about the system that you don't know the real reasons behind the things you threw out. All things considered, it seems clear which is the correct version.

I also have no reason to take much of what you say at face value. I base this on your earlier statements about what you do being influenced by the "actual text" of the Bansenshukai. As I pointed out, a full English translation is not availible and there is no mention of unarmed fighting in any of the works you mentioned. Name dropping books you don't have and could not read if you did shows a willingness to bend the truth to attract students.