Identity Verification?

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
We're discussing putting in a way for members to verify their identity.

Right now, we don't require posting of peoples real names, but we do require them at registration. Occasionally an issue comes up where an identity is in question and we've asked for proof. This proof has always been a copy of some form of government issued ID, with all the info removed except for name, city/state and month/year of birth. We've asked that all other information be blacked out or cut out such as street addresses, zip codes, ID numbers, etc. but that the copy be notarized to confirm it's valid and not a mock up. People have been understandably concerned with this due to misunderstandings of how identity theft works.

Our concern's always been to keep out the trouble makers and spammers, while protecting our members privacy.

With that in mind, we've been discussing alternate ways to validate accounts as 'legit' without causing privacy concerns.

What we're looking at doing is adding an optional (as in not-mandatory) validation system offering several ways to confirm that you are who you claim to be. These would be

1- Send in notarized information as previously mentioned. This documentation would be destroyed afterwards.
2- Use a third party ID validation service that will give us an OK, without us having any access to your info. These services do cost a few bucks, but have the added value of being useful across the web.
3- Have 2 or more "known good" members vouch for you.

All MT staff are validated automatically due to the NDA requirements they've completed. Also 'valid' would be our Advisors, most of our supporting members, and anyone whose been to a M&G or other endorsed event.

You'd get a tag "Verified Member" and other members would know you're not a sock puppet or bot.

This is as I said just being discussed and isn't policy.
It's also an optional thing, and would be free, at least from our end.

Thoughts?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
I'm quite happy to prove who I am ( I have to prove it myself every so often, old age you know lol) but don't know quite what would prove to you who I am as I don't know what you would accept with me being a foreigner to you! Some members ID would be in their own languages too.

Side note....as someone who has to check IDs quite a lot I can't be the only who forgets who she is....I'm often asked 'Don't you know who I am!' it must upset them as they are often angry when they say this. :)
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
For non-US, it'd be:
- copy of government issued ID, redacted for your protection.
OR
- use a 3rd party validation service.
OR
- Have someone vouch for you.
OR
- point us at a reliable website that we can confirm your with (say someone says they are an instructor at a school, we can check the schools website, maybe give the school a call or email to confirm)


Military and LEO's already have some systems in place to confirm ID, we might be able to tap into those given we have members of both on staff. Also, sites like Ebay have systems they use, we might be able to tap into those too.

One thing we would never do is ask for tax payer ids, social security numbers, bank info, etc. We don't need it, and anyone claiming to represent us who does needs to be reported to the cops.
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
ID's we're not familiar with, we'd probably have to research a bit to ensure they were legit. We might end up with a scaled system with non-english folks having to use a combination or a 3rd party option.

The 2 services I've been looking at charge like $5-10US for a "internet ID". I'd probably credit those folks something towards an SM for going through the trouble.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
Mmm you just want to do what we do, look at ID with photos so you can laugh at them!! We could have a thread with 'guess who's ID this is' it wouldn't violate privacy because no one looks like their ID photo!
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
ID's we're not familiar with, we'd probably have to research a bit to ensure they were legit. We might end up with a scaled system with non-english folks having to use a combination or a 3rd party option.

The 2 services I've been looking at charge like $5-10US for a "internet ID". I'd probably credit those folks something towards an SM for going through the trouble.[/quote]


To be honest I'm not internet savvy so if you said it was useful to have this I'd happily pay for it but you'd have to tell me how to go about it using simple language! I've never heard of things like this, though I've never had to prove who I was on the internet.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,674
Reaction score
4,544
Location
Michigan
A corn dog? :D


[yt]
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Dd_qiuWxPs&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Dd_qiuWxPs&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
[/yt]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,511
Reaction score
3,852
Location
Northern VA
ID's we're not familiar with, we'd probably have to research a bit to ensure they were legit. We might end up with a scaled system with non-english folks having to use a combination or a 3rd party option.

The 2 services I've been looking at charge like $5-10US for a "internet ID". I'd probably credit those folks something towards an SM for going through the trouble.
On the note of IDs from other countries... Because of where I work, I'm more than passing familiar with IDs from quite a few countries. Honestly, I don't think it'd be much of a problem.
 

d1jinx

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
17
Location
all-ova
I could care less about proving i am who I am if need be. It wouldn't bother me to send proof.

But I am curious, Why? Do you really have a problem with false identities? I mean, what I have thought was people might claim to be something thier not like a 20th degree Ninja from Koga japan. Seriously, maybe some proof if they claim a certain rank on thier profile to not pass off as something their not I think might be good also.

But then again, who and how can you validate a million different types of certifications?

Oh well, just my $.02.
 

d1jinx

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
17
Location
all-ova
.... but it would be nice to see people were verified and who and what they say they are.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,511
Reaction score
3,852
Location
Northern VA
I could care less about proving i am who I am if need be. It wouldn't bother me to send proof.

But I am curious, Why? Do you really have a problem with false identities? I mean, what I have thought was people might claim to be something thier not like a 20th degree Ninja from Koga japan. Seriously, maybe some proof if they claim a certain rank on thier profile to not pass off as something their not I think might be good also.

But then again, who and how can you validate a million different types of certifications?

Oh well, just my $.02.
One thing we're NOT talking about doing is verifying someone's credentials or rank as a martial artist. We've got some pretty clear criteria about what we'll do if we find serious falsification and what it takes to prove that sort of case. We also have an established policy about verifying law enforcement officials, if a question arises about their credentials. This would simply be a confirmation that there is a real, live person behind the screen name. And it'd be voluntary.
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
The way I look at this, it's not any type of certification or endorsement. it wouldn't be recognizing rank, etc. It's just a way that you know a member's who they say they are.

Couple of examples:
We have a number of 'name' level folks on here. Just to pick on 1 as an example, lets look at GoldenDragon7. That's Dennis Conatser. But how do you 'know'? I can validate him based on the fact that I've done business with him, talked to him extensively on the phone and he's on our Advisory Board. A number of other folks here also know him, so the odds are highly favorable that he (GD7) is in fact DC.

I can confirm that John Bishop, Bob White, Doc, all the current and former staff are who they say they are. Combination of legal documents, personal interactions, etc.

We can't vouch that someone claiming X is actually X, but we can remove the doubt they are who they claim to be.

Another example is some names are just plain common. We've had several Bruce Lees sign up, a number of John Smiths, etc. Common names, but they end up flagged because they're common. We offer a couple easy ways to confirm, it saves headaches later.

Easiest way to confirm your ID, show up at an event I or our staff or advisors are at and say hi. It's not fool proof, but at least we'd know you're not some russian hacker's server farm running a bot attack. :D

Also, for people who post using their name, and not a handle, it's instant credibility.

Kinda what's in my head, other than heat damage. :D
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
Problem with a scan is, well, photoshop. That's why we've always insisted on it being notarized then redacted. Not foolproof, but a bit more 'binding' (all mods for example have to send in Non-Disclosure Agreements and have them notarized). Catch is, that's complicated and in some cases expensive, which we want to minimize and simplify.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,433
Reaction score
9,214
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Personally, I like the idea of knowing the person you're talking to is who they say they are. I'd have zero problem sending you a copy of my DL or passport or whatever. Being a supporting member is proof enough?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
Bob I'm more than happy you contact my instructor for ID, I could send you my work IDs but tbh that only prove what I do not that I actually have anything to do with martial arts! I know one could assume that if ones true the other should be but I've seen enough walts around to know that that isn't necessarily true! When asked what I do I get enough idiots saying that they've done 'cage fighting' and they'll come training which of course they never do.
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,278
Reaction score
1,123
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I think what Bob is talking about is more that you are, in truth and fact, Irene Bottomly, rather than, say, Gerald Petersen (made-up name there.... hope there isn't really a Gerald Petersen here....), rather than anything to do with your credentials as a martial artist. For example, we have a member here who claims as his "primary martial art and experience" as 8th Level Vulcan Logic. That would not be called into question in this fashion, but his personal identity would be verified.

Oh, and I am who I say I am too, by the way. That's really a picture of me, anyone here who is a friend on my facebook page can see others to verifiy me, I use my real name, and I am listed as the Instructor for Melbourne on the "locatïons" page of our schools website. Would that be enough?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
I think what Bob is talking about is more that you are, in truth and fact, Irene Bottomly, rather than, say, Gerald Petersen (made-up name there.... hope there isn't really a Gerald Petersen here....), rather than anything to do with your credentials as a martial artist. For example, we have a member here who claims as his "primary martial art and experience" as 8th Level Vulcan Logic. That would not be called into question in this fashion, but his personal identity would be verified.

Oh, and I am who I say I am too, by the way. That's really a picture of me, anyone here who is a friend on my facebook page can see others to verifiy me, I use my real name, and I am listed as the Instructor for Melbourne on the "locatïons" page of our schools website. Would that be enough?

Trust me, if I made my name up it wouldn't include 'Bottomley' lol, thats my other half's Yorkshire legacy :) always fancied something exotic for a name, wouldn't go with the face though rofl. theres a video of me in the MMA section reffing so you can see what I mean, that remind me you can contact them too and they'll say yep, thats the middle aged lady who gets locked into the cage with fit young men! :ultracoolIt's a dirty job but someone has to do it!
 

Latest Discussions

Top