Hsing-i and Tai Chi Differences

[Jade Dragon Alaska]

1) In Tai Chi the head is held as if slightly suspended from above, whereas in Hsing-i, the crown of the head gently
presses upward, the bai hui point at the crown part of the head, has the feeling of being sucked inward;

2) in Hsing-i, the teeth are slightly clenched but Tai Chi has them only touching;

3) Hsing-i has a unique scissor step for directing earth root and whole body power;

4) the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed in Xing-i but guided by the thinking mind: this emotional
mind. Animals use this emotional based mind because it is quicker; senses to the thalamus, then to the amygdale in
12 milliseconds, most 'civilized' people use the cortex which takes twice the time at 24 milliseconds.

5) Most Tai Chi practitiioners issue Qi for martial force, Hsing-i will use Qi also, but focus on Fa Jing (quick explosive
internal power).

A good example of Fa Jing was when Kou Yu Chang slapped the back of a horse, and exploded the horses internal organs without any damage to the surface skin.

Internal Iron Palm

A major difference of Hsing-i, is that the first mind, the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed, rather it is cultivated since Xing Yi imitates the animal form, mind and spirit. Most men in a fight; cannot match a wild animal half their weight.

In some other internal martial arts, and Qi Gong; the emotional mind is suppressed and dominated by Yi, the wisdom mind. This emotional mind is the fastest, as it is travels from the thalamus, then to the amygdale.

The renown researcher of the neurology of fear, Dr. Joseph DeLoux of New York University, in his book The Emotional Brain, found that there are two kinds of fear in the brain: fast fear and slow fear.

Fast fear travels the low road of the brain: senses to thalamus, then to the amygdale, which is located deep within the brain on the temporal sides; time 12 milliseconds. Traditional philosophy represents this separation as horse mind (slow) controlling the monkey mind (fast).

Slow fear travels the high road of the brain: senses to thalamus which sends it to the cortex (higher up); time 24 milliseconds. Both systems occur simultaneously, with the same sense data, the theory being that you cannot have speed and accuracy on the same circuit. Bear in mind, this is not the time to process the information, or physically move to react.

12 milliseconds or 1 hundredth of a second might not seem like much difference, but consider that there are some people that can beat a flash. Beating a flash is blinking your eyes when a photo is shot with a flash. The difference in speed between the flash, and camera shutter is one fiftieth of a second, or 2 hundredths. I and others can beat it trying, and by surprise, some just by surprise. Memory and choice have to go to the cortex, so they are slower; test your reaction theory with the flash.

With the foot steps, the true idea is to not fall into emptiness. Disperse the breath. The issuing is totally in the rear foot. Store up the intent. You need to protect the groin. If the beginning posture is good, then use ‘Sweeping the Ground Wind’.

Rooted steps are the scissor handles of the scissor-stepping that are driving the martial motion through one’s Lower Dan Tien (scissor’s axis pivoting point), that focuses the strike forward (scissor’s cutting tip).

In every movement, watch your Yi. When Yi generates the idea for movement, the Qi will be immediately led to the end section, starting the movement of the end section. The middle section follows and the root section urges the movement. This is not the same as Tai Chi, because the body in Hsing-i is more like rattan than water. Even though it is flexible, the body is hard so when the Yi is generated on the target, the tip can move first, and the power is pushed from the body and the root section.

Stomp while advancing; as a one would off a trampoline to launch a strike. This has a pedaling action forward, wtih the front foot directing and shaping the force issued by the rear foot.

The eyes must be venomous: acute, sharp and stern, with a mean and serious look. Your original Qi must be full and abundant in order to have these. Therefore, when practicing fist methods, it is training Qi and Li. Training Li is able to strengthen the body, and training Qi is able to enhance the spirit of vitality. Those whose Kung fu is deep, are able to gather the Qi at the Lower Dan Tien and the five internal organs are comfortable and expanded.

The highest level of achievement: the mind is mindless; you do nothing and have done everything. In the emptiness we find prenatal bodies. If you try too hard, it will elude you. Instead of trying to achieve it, pretend you already have it. The mind embodies your actions: therefore, Hsing-i is mind boxing.

This can not be reached through force or simply imitating.

When it is time to be calm, it is quite and transparent. In this position, you are steady like a mountain.

In the beginning of the movement, the body remains soft so Qi can be led to the limbs. Hsing-i Jin is similar to rattan, soft and bending, yet hard when it strikes. The power is manifested like a cannonball exploding.

Learning Hsing-i:

in the beginning it will appear simple and easy,

when first trying the move it will appear complicated and difficult,

after mastering Hsing-i, it will become direct and simple easily executed.


Martial Qi flows like mercury.

Some Traditional Internal Chinese Martial Arts, will heat and redden the practitioner’s palms, Hsing-i can heat the entire room!

http://www.jadedragonalaska.com/hsing-i.php

 

[Xue Sheng]

Chalk this up to training differences or style differences...but

In Tai Chi the head is held as if slightly suspended from above, whereas in Hsing-i, the crown of the head gently
presses upward, the bai hui point at the crown part of the head, has the feeling of being sucked inward;

Both Xingyiquan and Taiji can be as if suspended

2) in Hsing-i, the teeth are slightly clenched but Tai Chi has them only touching;

Most definitely not what I was taught

3) Hsing-i has a unique scissor step for directing earth root and whole body power;

The root is also rather impotent to Taijiquan as well but the stepping between Taiji and Xingyi are most certainly very different

4) the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed in Xing-i but guided by the thinking mind: this emotional
mind. Animals use this emotional based mind because it is quicker; senses to the thalamus, then to the amygdale in
12 milliseconds, most 'civilized' people use the cortex which takes twice the time at 24 milliseconds.

It is not surpressed in Taijiquan either...Yi, Qi, Li and of course lets not forget Shen

5) Most Tai Chi practitiioners issue Qi for martial force, Hsing-i will use Qi also, but focus on Fa Jing (quick explosive
internal power).

Most if not all taiji strikes involve Fajin and fajin has its root in the movement of Qi both taiji and xingyi are the same here

Internal Iron Palm

A major difference of Hsing-i, is that the first mind, the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed, rather it is cultivated since Xing Yi imitates the animal form, mind and spirit. Most men in a fight; cannot match a wild animal half their weight.

In some other internal martial arts, and Qi Gong; the emotional mind is suppressed and dominated by Yi, the wisdom mind. This emotional mind is the fastest, as it is travels from the thalamus, then to the amygdale.

I do not know of one single IMA where emotions are suppressed you learn to stay calm in all, includiong Xingyiquan, but nothing is suppressed.

With the foot steps, the true idea is to not fall into emptiness. Disperse the breath. The issuing is totally in the rear foot. Store up the intent. You need to protect the groin. If the beginning posture is good, then use ‘Sweeping the Ground Wind’.

Rooted steps are the scissor handles of the scissor-stepping that are driving the martial motion through one’s Lower Dan Tien (scissor’s axis pivoting point), that focuses the strike forward (scissor’s cutting tip).

In every movement, watch your Yi. When Yi generates the idea for movement, the Qi will be immediately led to the end section, starting the movement of the end section. The middle section follows and the root section urges the movement. This is not the same as Tai Chi, because the body in Hsing-i is more like rattan than water. Even though it is flexible, the body is hard so when the Yi is generated on the target, the tip can move first, and the power is pushed from the body and the root section.

Again both Taiji and Xingyi use Yi, Qi, Li and therefore are again quite similar

The eyes must be venomous: acute, sharp and stern, with a mean and serious look.

Agreed, many good Xingyiquan people can scare you with a look... good taiji people just frustrate the hell out of you because they never look tense, nervous or angry even while fighting.

In the beginning of the movement, the body remains soft so Qi can be led to the limbs. Hsing-i Jin is similar to rattan, soft and bending, yet hard when it strikes. The power is manifested like a cannonball exploding.

Again I agree

Learning Hsing-i:

in the beginning it will appear simple and easy,

when first trying the move it will appear complicated and difficult,

after mastering Hsing-i, it will become direct and simple easily executed.

Again agree

 

[pete]

Tai Chi = soft on the outside, hard on the inside
Xingyi = hard on the outside, soft on the inside

pete.

 

[Diesel_tke]

A good example of Fa Jing was when Kou Yu Chang slapped the back of a horse, and exploded the horses internal organs without any damage to the surface skin.

Once I got to this part your credibility was reduced to the equivalent of my five year old's. Thus everything else is nonsense.

 

[ggg214]

what is "the so-called emotional mind, Xing"?

 

[mograph]

Xing? I don't see "emotional mind" here ...

But spelling counts, at least for depth of research:

Amygdale:
(Earth Sciences / Geological Science) a vesicle in a volcanic rock, formed from a bubble of escaping gas, that has become filled with light-coloured minerals, such as quartz and calcite Also called amygdule [əˈmɪgdjuːl]

Amygdala:
An almond-shaped mass of gray matter in the front part of the temporal lobe of the cerebrum that is part of the limbic system and is involved in the processing and expression of emotions, especially anger and fear.

Sorry. Psych major.

 

[clfsean]

Yeah... he won't be replying to this. He think the staff here is out to get him & has done something to his account.

He's on the Dragonslist ...

 

[Xue Sheng]

He's on the Dragonslist ...

Sadly true...

 

[oaktree]

1) In Tai Chi the head is held as if slightly suspended from above, whereas in Hsing-i, the crown of the head gently
presses upward, the bai hui point at the crown part of the head, has the feeling of being sucked inward;

Both are held at Bai hui point you want proper structure. I really don't see it as different. Maybe the Taoist Tai Chi Society which pushes the body in a slant forward position break the suspended rule but in my limited experience all neijia have this including Bagua. The pont is to be straight but not rigid.

2) in Hsing-i, the teeth are slightly clenched but Tai Chi has them only touching;

Is this speaking for all Xingyi schools and Taijiquan schools. I perfer not to have any clenching because this tenses the jaws which tenses the shoulders resulting is less power. But thats my opinion.

3) Hsing-i has a unique scissor step for directing earth root and whole body power;

I don't know there does exist some "Scissor" "cross steps" in Taijiquan at least in Chen Laojia

2:11, 2:20.2:25, we can argue at 2:30 that is Xingyiquan haha.

the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed in Xing-i but guided by the thinking mind: this emotional
mind. Animals use this emotional based mind because it is quicker; senses to the thalamus, then to the amygdale in
12 milliseconds, most 'civilized' people use the cortex which takes twice the time at 24 milliseconds.

The emotional mind is called Xin 心 Xing from Xingyi is this Hanzi 形 this Hanzi means like shape. The emotional mind is not supressed it is more like using the intent or intellect to deal with your problem rather than using emotion such as anger or fear to deal with your opponent.

5) Most Tai Chi practitiioners issue Qi for martial force, Hsing-i will use Qi also, but focus on Fa Jing (quick explosive
internal power).

What about Chan Si gong(silk reeling) in Chen Taijiquan? I really can not think of a Taijiquan style that does not have any fa jing in the forms or applications.

A good example of Fa Jing was when Kou Yu Chang slapped the back of a horse, and exploded the horses internal organs without any damage to the surface skin

I don't know there is so many stories about past masters I take it with a grain of salt. Dong Hai Chuan was suppose to be able to stop bullets and raise from his coffin lol.

A major difference of Hsing-i, is that the first mind, the so-called emotional mind, Xing, is not to be suppressed, rather it is cultivated since Xing Yi imitates the animal form, mind and spirit. Most men in a fight; cannot match a wild animal half their weight.

um, Xin 心 Well you have animal forms in Xingyi and the element forms as well. The idea to me is using Xing 形 to change the shape of yourself like from element to element or animal to animal but using the intent and calmness of rationalizing which one to use at the right time. If you truly use the emotional mind to attack then you will just attack like a wild animal getting hit in the process unsure if you are even attacking at the highest perecent.

In some other internal martial arts, and Qi Gong; the emotional mind is suppressed and dominated by Yi, the wisdom mind. This emotional mind is the fastest, as it is travels from the thalamus, then to the amygdale.

Supression and domination is not harmony. The emotional mind is rationalized until it calms down supression and domination only creates more hostility and fear.

In every movement, watch your Yi. When Yi generates the idea for movement, the Qi will be immediately led to the end section, starting the movement of the end section. The middle section follows and the root section urges the movement. This is not the same as Tai Chi, because the body in Hsing-i is more like rattan than water. Even though it is flexible, the body is hard so when the Yi is generated on the target, the tip can move first, and the power is pushed from the body and the root section.

How is this different from Taijiquan? Xue pointed out the same. I see moving the body as one found in Taijiquan and Baguazhang.
The rest of it I can find in Taijiquan and Baguazhang too. This is my opinion Taijiquan aim is not to go straight thru you it can but thats not the objective. Xingyiquan objective is to go thru you and not evade you or even retreat. In my opinion Xingyiquan is about moving forward with the correct technique.

Pete gave a good example of what Xingyiquan and Taijiquan have and how they different. I think you can find similarities in all the arts just the application and method of applying it may differ. Interesting Jade Dragon wrote a book on Xingyiquan.

 

[ggg214]

thanks for oaktree. at last i know what does "the so-called emotional mind, Xing" mean.
Xin yi quan（心意拳）, also called Xin yi Liu He quan（心意六合拳） is totally a different style comparing with Xing yi quan（形意拳）.
they may have the same root and some relatvie gestures, but it's the two kinds of styles. don't mix them.