How to build muscle

[marvin81]

I didn't know that "more weight with less reps" (A) can build more muscle than "less weight with more reps" (B). In the past many years, I went from A to B and I was wrong all these years. I also didn't know that more reps only build endurance and not build muscle.

For example,

A 30 lb dumbbell that you work 3 sets of 10 reps is better than 15 lb dumbbell that you work 4 sets of 20 reps.

Yes. studies (e.g. Schoenfeld, Phillips, Krieger, Helms) have shown this. A wide range of reps can build muscle. The question is how efficiently?

I was very proud of myself that I can still hold my 5 lb dumbbell and punch 2,000 times daily. I then find out that 5 lb weight is just too light to be any useful to build muscle.

However, punching with weights can be counterproductive and build bad habits (e.g., wrong punching mechanics).

For those of you who also work on weight, could you share your personal experience on this?

I do a typical four day upper/lower and arms split, 3 sets 8-12 reps. Two consecutive days on, 1 day off then weekend off. Fundamentals in building more muscle are 1) progressive overload, 2) training close to failure, 3) recovery 4) diet.

I try to gain weight and not lose weight.

Old Chinese saying said, "有钱难买老来瘦 - Money can't buy someone to be thin in old age." Chinese was wrong. Losing weight in old age is far worse than gaining weight.

Eat more calories than you consume/burn. Gaining muscle weight takes longer and is harder than gaining weight.

I try to kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

1. Walk or run 3 miles for endurance.
2. MA kick/punch training (200 kicks, 1200 punches).
3. Muscle weight training (200 push ups, 100 squards)

That’s more calisthenics than muscle building.

I may still be able to do this today. But I'm not sure it's a good idea.

This is not as efficient in “building muscle.”

60 used to be my lucky number. Today, I decide to cut it down to 30 by adding 10% extra weight instead.

30 reps can still be too high. Develop the skill of getting closer to failure faster with less reps gaining more muscle with less calorie burning.

I'll also stop doing my 2,000 punches with my 5 lb dumbbell. It only helps me to build up endurance. But endurance training (burn more calories) will cause me to lose more weight.

This and punching with weights can be counterproductive and build bad habits (e.g., wrong punching mechanics).

Chinese national weightlifting team and Anatoly include low repetition (1-5 reps) compound lifts to maximize strength. In general, bodybuilders use more moderate reps (6-12 reps) for hypertrophy to gain bigger muscles. High reps (15+ reps) still build muscle but less optimal for strength.

People in their 80s building muscle and bone density with Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength (compound lifts, 5 repetitions).

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

If you are experiencing unexpected weight loss at your age, without significant changes in your lifestyle that might explain it such as diet changes or exercise, you need to see your doctor. That could be a sign of cancer or some other health problem that could be serious. Go get checked.

That was the first thing that I did. MRI, CT, Ultrasound. I had a full body checked. To be a pure vegetarian was my problem. Only in the past few years I started to add fish into my diet. Sometime my vegetarian diet contains very little protein and I didn't realize.

 

[isshinryuronin]

That was the first thing that I did. MRI, CT, Ultrasound. I had a full body checked. To be a pure vegetarian was my problem. Only in the past few years I started to add fish into my diet. Sometime my vegetarian diet contains very little protein and I didn't realize.

May I suggest a breakfast of pancakes, hash browns and egg. For lunch, cheeseburger, fries and milkshake, and for dinner, broccoli (just so you can go to bed without feeling 100% guilty).

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

May I suggest a breakfast of pancakes, hash browns and egg. For lunch, cheeseburger, fries and milkshake, and for dinner, broccoli (just so you can go to bed without feeling 100% guilty).

I still don't eat egg and meat.

I don't eat breakfast and I only eat brunch (may be this is also my problem). My brunch can be:

- 1 smoke salmon and cheese sandwich (multigrain bread), or cottage cheese sandwich, or cream cheese sandwich.
- 1 small cucumber.
- 1 small tomato.
- 2 radishes.
- 1 banana.
- hot green tea.

Here is my favor green tea.

Superfine Pouchong (Limited)

tenren.com

 

[Buka19]

May I suggest a breakfast of pancakes, hash browns and egg. For lunch, cheeseburger, fries and milkshake, and for dinner, broccoli (just so you can go to bed without feeling 100% guilty).

That sounds like a good diet to me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

May I suggest a breakfast of pancakes, hash browns and egg. For lunch, cheeseburger, fries and milkshake, ...

Is there any reason that you don't like vegetable that much?

A friend of mine had body order. I suggested her to eat fresh ginger daily. Just in 2 weeks, her body order was gone. Her body started to send out fresh ginger smell that was so pleasant. It's amazing how fresh ginger can do on human body.

 

[Prince_Alarming102]

May I suggest a breakfast of pancakes, hash browns and egg. For lunch, cheeseburger, fries and milkshake, and for dinner, broccoli (just so you can go to bed without feeling 100% guilty).

And beans. Lots of beans...

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

Has anybody ever used creatine? If you have, could you share your opinion?

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

A wide range of reps can build muscle. The question is how efficiently?

I used to do 4 sets of 20 reps on all my weight (bench press, pulley, dumbbell, ...). Yesterday, I followed the 3 sets of 15 reps rule with heavier weights. After work out, I didn't feel tired at all. I'll try to keep doing this for the next 2 weeks and see the result.

 

[MetalBoar50]

Has anybody used creatine? If you have, could you share your opinion?

Sure, it's just about the most studied supplement there is and they keep finding benefits, including cognitive benefits, as time goes on. There's some evidence that it may be more beneficial as we age than for young people. I started using it decades ago when I was a vegetarian because the main dietary source is red meat. I've found it improves my workouts a little with no downsides. It had more impact when I was a vegetarian. Some people seem to respond more strongly than others. It's has solid, small, researched backed effects - it's not like steroids unlike what some people seem to think. Still, it used to be a no brainer, because it works, and until the pandemic, plus it's meteoric rise in popularity, it was super cheap. Even with the increased prices it's not expensive. It's just about the only supplement I take regularly and the only supplement I recommend if someone asks me about what to take.

If you do decide to try it, make sure that you drink plenty of water because as part of how it works it causes your body to store more water in your muscle cells and so you have to drink more to accommodate that. Don't worry about a loading phase, it's unnecessary and some people have reported intestinal distress from very large doses. Also, you should let your doctors know you're taking it because it can cause some tests to give a false positive for kidney disease. Don't let that worry you, there's no indication, over hundreds (maybe thousands) of studies that it causes any kidney damage.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

Sure, it's just about the most studied supplement there is and they keep finding benefits, including cognitive benefits, as time goes on. There's some evidence that it may be more beneficial as we age than for young people. I started using it decades ago when I was a vegetarian because the main dietary source is red meat. I've found it improves my workouts a little with no downsides. It had more impact when I was a vegetarian. Some people seem to respond more strongly than others. It's has solid, small, researched backed effects - it's not like steroids unlike what some people seem to think. Still, it used to be a no brainer, because it works, and until the pandemic, plus it's meteoric rise in popularity, it was super cheap. Even with the increased prices it's not expensive. It's just about the only supplement I take regularly and the only supplement I recommend if someone asks me about what to take.

If you do decide to try it, make sure that you drink plenty of water because as part of how it works it causes your body to store more water in your muscle cells and so you have to drink more to accommodate that. Don't worry about a loading phase, it's unnecessary and some people have reported intestinal distress from very large doses. Also, you should let your doctors know you're taking it because it can cause some tests to give a false positive for kidney disease. Don't let that worry you, there's no indication, over hundreds (maybe thousands) of studies that it causes any kidney damage.

Thanks for your information. I have learned this from XYZ (it's against the MT rule to meantion XYZ here).

 

[punisher731]

Basically, to build muscle you have to stress the muscle and exhaust as many of the muscle fibers as possible. Your body only recruits as many muscle fibers as needed to do the lift. It really doesn't know "weight", which means that the muscle only works as hard as it needs regardless of the weight actually used.

So, lets take the bench press.
I can pre-exhaust the muscle by doing pec deck flyes (which isolates just the pectoral muscles) and then when I do the bench press the body has to recruit more muscle fibers to complete the lift since they are already taxed.
I can use a heavy weight near the top end of what I can lift and lift that for lower reps to exhaust the muscle and recruit as many muscle fibers as possible.
I can use a lighter weight and do more reps until I exhaust the muscle and recruit as many muscle fibers as possible.

Currently, the science points to "time under tension" as the most important variable for triggering muscle hypertrophy. This is why in "bodybuilding" routines, the rep range is usually no less than 6 and usually no more than 15 reps. Lower than 6 and you are building more pure strength and not causing hypertrophy in the muscle (the muscle getting bigger) and more than 15 reps and you are starting to train more endurance and not triggering hypertrophy in the muscles. Also, the lifting tempo is important. Using a slow controlled lowering of the weight (negative) and a controlled lifting of the weight as well.

Also, "going to failure" for a natural trainee means going until "mechanical failure" or your form starts to break down to compensate for the muscle fatigue. The body needs not only the muscle to recover on your off days, but also your nervous system as well. The closer you get to your genetic ceiling, the longer this recovery needs to be if you are taxing it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

more than 15 reps and you are starting to train more endurance and not triggering hypertrophy in the muscles.

That was the mistake that I made in the past. For the weight pulley, I usually won't stop until I reach to 60 (I don't know why, 60 is always my favor number). I just switch to 3 x 15 lately. Since I don't feel tired afterward, I don't feel that I have done enough.

 

[MetalBoar50]

That was the mistake that I made in the past. For the weight pulley, I usually won't stop until I reach to 60 (I don't know why, 60 is always my favor number). I just switch to 3 x 15 lately. Since I don't feel tired, I don't feel that I have done enough.

When you say you don't feel tired, do you mean that the muscles don't feel like they've been worked, like you could still do a lot more reps, or do you mean that you didn't feel systemically tired? When you got to the 15th rep on the 3rd set, did it feel like you could keep going for another 5 or 10 reps or were just about at your limit for that exercise without at least a short break?

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

When you say you don't feel tired, do you mean that the muscles don't feel like they've been worked, like you could still do a lot more reps, or do you mean that you didn't feel systemically tired? When you got to the 15th rep on the 3rd set, did it feel like you could keep going for another 5 or 10 reps or were just about at your limit for that exercise without at least a short break?

After 3 x 15, I feel I can do another 2 x 15. But my XYZ tells me if I do 3 x 20, I may do for endurance and not doing for building muscle.

I'm so used to do endurance building than muscle building. I'll need more time to get used to the change. For example, my XYZ tells me I should not do 5 x 40 push ups. I should do 3 x 15 instead. But 3 x 15 push ups make me to feel nothing.

 

[MetalBoar50]

After 3 x 15, I feel I can do another 2 x 15. But my XYZ tells me if I do 3 x 20, I may do for endurance and not doing for building muscle.

If you feel like that then it sounds like the weight is still too light. If you get to rep 15 of the 3rd set and you feel like you could keep going with that set without a problem then it's definitely too light. I use a different protocol where I only do 1 set, but if I were using a protocol with 3x15 sets, I'd increase the weight to the point where it was hard or impossible to do all 15 reps on the last set. IMO, if you feel like you can keep going easily then it's too light. While we're talking about weight, as long as you can maintain good form, I'd personally consider lifting something that was heavy enough that 8 (or less) reps/set represented a challenge, rather than 15, unless you're moving very quickly. But if you can move very quickly, with control, that's also an indicator that you're lifting too light.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

lifting something that was heavy enough that 8 (or less) reps/set represented a challenge,

That's a good point. 8 is the magic number. I'll use it to find out my proper weight. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[Gyakuto103]

There are two ways to increase your strength. You can build extra muscle mass which increases the number of functional units that produce force (sarcomeres) or recruit the motor units you already have, more efficiently. Progressive weight training, to 1-3 reps of failure per set, does both these things.

Anatoly, neurally recruits his motor units very efficiently so nearly all of them are contributing to contraction and so he exerts more force than you might expect given the number of sarcomeres he possesses.

Eddie Hall has a lot of sarcomeres due to his hard training, devotion to a ‘strength diet’ and nothing else…at all… which contribute to the high net contraction force he’s able to exert.

I’d rather perform and indeed, look like Anatoly.

 

[Gyakuto103]

Training to failure…

 

[MetalBoar50]

Training to failure…

Pretty good discussion about training to failure. I think that both Mr. Nalewanyj, and especially the 14 year old example (but hey, he's 14!), would both be better served by reducing their facial grimacing and extraneous muscular contractions and movements, but they're both doing far better than the average on all counts.

I'm not in their bodies, but I also feel like they give up a little early for what I'd call failure. I've found that people will hit what seems like failure but if they really squeeze it out they'll get another half rep or even a full rep. Both the 14 y.o. and Mr. Nalewanyj stop the moment they feel like the weights have stopped moving like they're dropping something hot. I'm not saying you have to train beyond the level of failure they're achieving, and it's possible to push all the way past the point of diminishing returns and actually retard progress, but they both look like they are stopping before they can know if they're really at the end or not and also not controlling the final negative. Having supervised 1000's of sessions to failure, I think they might have a little more in the tank than they think they do. That being said, the vast majority of people who think they train to "failure" stop at ~ 75% of the effort that these two demonstrate and they're both doing a fantastic job on that front.

Ol Dr. Mike there looks ridiculous! Sure looks like he's pushing hard but all of that screaming is just distracting him from the work. He maintains pretty consistent form, it's not all terrible, but I don't think it's good either. He'd very likely get superior results if he did a better job of keeping the muscles loaded - at the very least slowing the negative down to where he isn't just basically dropping the weights for the majority or entirety of that phase on most reps. And sure, he's big, strong, and he works hard. I'm not saying he doesn't know anything or isn't having any success, but he also admits to juicing his brains out, which makes it hard to know how much of his success can be attributed to his knowledge and how much is the PED's (HINT: no matter how knowledgeable he might be a lot of his results are PEDs).