How many?

[ATC]

Our adult class seems to be stuck and not able to grow. Our kids classes are huge and getting bigger but we seem to be falling short with the adults.

The question I have is how many adults in your class and what do you do to attract more?

Also what do you think adults are looking for?

Thanks.

 

[miguksaram]

Our adult class seems to be stuck and not able to grow. Our kids classes are huge and getting bigger but we seem to be falling short with the adults.

The question I have is how many adults in your class and what do you do to attract more?

Also what do you think adults are looking for?

Thanks.

Free beer with every 6 month program.

Honestly, the adult market is hard to reach. Mostly because of time. Adults are busy and money is tight. For the most part we will average about 10 adults in our class at most. We really don't concnetrate on marketing to them too much. However, weight loss and stress management is a key to get more adults interested.

 

[Blindside]

When I was studying kenpo our kids class was the main driver for our adult class, either parents of kids or kids graduating up. Oddly enough though all of our senior instructors originally got into it for other reasons. When I look around at that adult kenpo class and at other schools teaching "adult" classes, it really isn't, it is usually "13 and up" or something. I think that drives away new adults looking for a pastime because they perceive it as a "kids thing" because when they look at the class, most of the class is in high school. The flip side of that is that if you are a big competition type school, the 40 year old doesn't want to try to compete with the 16 year old because they think they won't be able match the physical abilities of the youngster.

With Kali I teach only 18 and up, my classes are small and I won't ever make a living off of it. I emphasize practical self-defense, we spar to develop good attributes against resisting targets, but not really as any sort of organized competition. My retention rate is high and the large majority of my guys have extensive experience in other arts, they found some mix with me that the other arts weren't giving them.

Honestly, in talking with many of them, they weren't really seeing the benefits of many aspects of their martial arts *cough*kata*cough* and wanted a very applied martial art. Alternately, they came from a very applied martial art like Judo or boxing and didn't want to get into those aspects either. I don't think this is really helpful to someone who runs a traditional TKD program, but it is something that I have noticed and perhaps it will be informative.

 

[Stac3y]

We have trouble building adult classes, too. All of the adults in my classes are either ones who got sucked in because their kids were in the junior classes (and there aren't that many) or 12-14 year old kids who have already earned their junior black belts and are moving up to the adult curriculum, or who outgrew the junior program (13 is the maximum age for earning a junior black belt in our program) and were moved up. Last session, I taught a total of 11 "adults" in two locations, in contrast to more than 50 kids. Work schedules seem to be a problem, as well as child care during the adult class, which runs after the junior class. My husband stayed in long enough to earn his yellow belt, then quit. He hated it--he just didn't like being told what to do; said he gets enough of that elsewhere, and he plans to never participate in "forced exercise" ever again. I was hooked after my first class, so I'm at a loss to explain why we don't have adults packed in shoulder to shoulder.

 

[dancingalone]

I have around 16 adult karate students and classes usually hover around 12 in attendance at all times. I am more than content with this number since I could not handle more and still give a reasonable amount of attention to each person. I do not advertise and I only maintain a private website exclusively for the use of the students. Everyone who has joined within the last 5 years learned about my school through word of mouth only.

As for building to this number, it did take years and years to reach it. I have high standards and expectations and I explain to any prospective students that it is a significant commitment. The dynamic is different from most dojo/dojang however as I only charge $25 a month and I WILL drop students from the class if they do not attend class and practice outside on their own time as well.

 

[Manny]

Our adult class seems to be stuck and not able to grow. Our kids classes are huge and getting bigger but we seem to be falling short with the adults.

The question I have is how many adults in your class and what do you do to attract more?

Also what do you think adults are looking for?

Thanks.

ATC here you have it. In my dojang the only adults are 6 moms (most of them new black belts) and three men including me, alot of (boys,girls and teens) and two young men (arpound 20 y.o.).

The moms go TKD clases because of the work out and try to be in shape, nothing more,nothing else, my two white belts go TKD the same. I go TKD because I love MA and love SD and to improve my health.

So basically I am the only TKD adult who takes TKD as a MA.

Now, what I see in the nearest dojangs to mine (2) only kids go to TKD, cero adults but the sambonim and instructors.

Manny

 

[ATC]

So it seems to be the norm across the board. Not many adults in any classes compared to the children classes.

I remember when I first joined the Dojang that I am currently, there were 20+ adults all the time. 3 of us are still around and all the others are gone. Now our classes for adults range from 6 - 12 students and only 3 of them are newbies.

It is my hopes to have many adults to keep the class energy up. I remember 20-30 years ago that adult classes were the bread and butter classes. What changed, and why?

Also the adults don't stick around to talk shop either. Class ends and they are gone. It would be nice to have them stick around and talk the arts. Guess everyone is busy no days, that's ashame. I say slow down and enjoy the things you do. Not just have it as a check off for the daily list.

 

[terryl965]

ATC here is a breakdown of all my people

4 - 6 years old 7
7 - 9 years old 13
10 - 13 years old 28
14 - 17 years old 9
18 - 56 years old 8

So all in all I have 65 total at my school, now we have 124 at the three Charter school we do. I am like you how do you get adults though the door, about ten years ago we had probaly around 45 adults and 35 childern and yes that includes to the age of 17. The times are changing and I have a group of twenty parents wanting me to do an after school program at the school. They want it to start in January and they are willing to pay me $75.00 a week and I am really thinking about it because the numbers are good with the economy being so bad.

 

[Thesemindz]

In general, adults take martial art lessons for two reasons. Lose weight. Learn self defense. Yes there are hobbyists and some people like to compete. But this is a tough economy, and adults have neither time on their hands nor expendable income. If they are going to spend real money on martial arts lessons it needs to be a necessity, not a luxury.

That doesn't mean you can't teach TKD, or kenpo, or BJJ, or even Western Boxing. But you have to understand what is important to the customer and then honestly convey how your product meets their needs.*

And you better be right and you better believe it, because sooner or later your customers will figure it out on their own. Enrollment is usually based on promises. Retention comes from follow through.

Be honest with yourself about what you do and what it's worth, then be honest with the customer. That's how you make sales that last.

This industry is based on word of mouth first and foremost. If you show up every time and teach the best class you can, you're students will tell their friends. Just remember, that sword cuts both ways.


-Rob

 

[dancingalone]

What changed, and why?

I really believe part of why it is difficult to acquire adult students now is precisely because of the large numbers of kids in most dojang. Adults interested in MA take one look at the often times mixed age classes and they go straight to the Krav Maga or kickboxing or BJJ gyms.

My karate class is as successful as it is because I do not need to make money from it and I can run it as I please. It is fast paced and targeted towards those who want to learn authentic Okinawan karate. This differentiates me from the typical commercial school and I do strive to maintain somewhat of an 'exclusive' air around the class.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Our club would be about 60-70% kids (18 years old or younger). The actual class I train in has 45-50 students and well over 30 of them are adults, which is the reason I changed classes a year ago as the less kids in a class the better for me. I think the class I am currently at has so many adults because the core of them have been training together for over 20 years and its a real 'click' group. We currently have 8 new white belts who are all adults, I think this class attracts adults because there are very little kids in the class and the instructor is very 'old school' which I thinks appeals to adults when looking for martial arts. Adults have a certain pre conceived idea of what martial arts is and when they check out a club and see heaps of kids running around with an instructor who has to 'dumb' down the teaching to cater for the kids, it tends to be quite off putting to potential clientel. I think adults are looking for the 'old school' style classes that are depicted on tv.

 

[granfire]

I think adults like a bit of a community feel in their after hours activities. Like the softball league or church teams. Our school's format really didn't allow for that and adults were not actively recruited, the kids paid the rent.

If the schools run a full program it would probably help to have separate classes on different floors for parents and kids. Not every adult wants to start out in the kiddy class and it just takes too much time to make 2 trips to the center. Then again, depending on the area MA are just not something you do. It's ok for kids (get BB and get out) but adults, not so much. (had a mother react as if I offered her turd when I suggested she'd try it.)

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Its a bit of a vicious cycle really, clubs that have a lot of adults have little trouble recruiting more adults whereas clubs with only a few adults will struggle to get more. The class I was training in last year was all kids except for me and my mate. We regularly had new adult students start but after a couple of classes of being paired with kids for self defence drills or sparring they just stopped coming. Whereas the class Im in this year which is bursting at the seams with adults seems to have no trouble at all bringing in new adult students. I remember last year there would be times I came home from work pumped up and excited about going to tkd, then I would get to class and see 20 kids running around and just me and my mate above the age of 18 and it really knocked the wind out of my sails at times. No doubt potential clientel felt the same. I felt sorry for the instructor there because he was a 6th dan and very knowledgable and a very good tkdist with the best intentions but with only a couple of adults in his classes it was very hard for him to market the class to adults, when other classes just up the road had an abundance of adults. I suggested a few times that the club have adult and kids classes but they had tried it before and a lot of the adults were parents of the kids and wanted to train with their child to save two separate visits to the dojang.

 

[StudentCarl]

My 17 year old son and I talked about this thread yesterday before team practice. Besides the lack-of-time factor and parents putting their money into their kids rather than themselves, we both think that a big but seldom mentioned factor is that adults are less willing to become beginners again and go through that awkward "I don't know anything and I can't move right" phase.

What I'd call 'beginner's mind'--the willingness to just be a fearless kid and try until you get it, is less common in adults. Adults don't want to embarrass themselves in front of others. They have life experience and confidence built from perseverence, so it's hard for some to go back to being a beginner. They also seem to believe that being a beginner is for the young, when bodies are flexible, energized, and heal overnight (it seems). Interestingly, I think the best students are the people who are most fearless about trying new things and tinkering with it until they get it.

So how does one address this? There was another thread on this topic a few months ago. I think the key is to build a core group and then grow it through word-of-mouth. Adults can handle more information and like to be challenged yet praised for their accomplishments as well. While there are great benefits to mixed-age classes, I think an adults-only class is the best way to build your adult membership. That's what we do, and we've grown from 7 to 15 adults in the last 10 months. Two were walk-ins; the others are parents or word-of-mouth.

Carl

 

[Master Dan]

If you want to PM me I can send you some written material on specific programs we do for adults over 35 which have been very successfull.

In general any time you can get a parent to committ to train with thier kid or kids its a win win for all the kids because they like to see the adults even if they strugle along with them. However you must have the experience to teach multi levels in the same class at the same time. First and formost do not have adults especially over 40 doing kid snapping, jumping twisting movements that will cause injury. The philosophy and focus for older adults has to be different.

In general over 40 are looking for two main things, better health and self defense. You can teach them in general some things that the kids should not be or are not ready to learn. I give free uniforms and other materials to any parent or adult over 35 willing to commit to training. Hard to get dads but generally will get one mom and before you know it they have a circle of friends to include 6 or more just like a social network. Older people all have specific training needs based on current health and past injuries.

Bottom line reeducate yourself related to health and diet and suppliments. The common problem with most older adults especially those who have past experience in any sport is thier vision of training. they consistantly flash back to how they trained when they were 20 and will injure themselves trying to reach back to that. The ego must be taken out of the training with the focus on training to be healthy not become and image that media and possilby thier own mental issues.

Ultimate goals for any person over 40 should be to increase the abilty to have fun with thier kids and grand children for the rest of thier life. I have a terrific new student 50 years old who's grandson he raises has been my student for three years. The 50 year old is one of the best new students in years learning fast but contiually wanting to go to hard and out of the blue one night at home put his back out could not work, or barely move. He started going to the Chiropractor but was not able to train or move very well. Of course the Chiropractor wants him to come very often and spend alot of money. He came in last night I first put him in the sauna then taught how to do his own passive adjustment which aligns the entire spinal colum and last much longer than agressive forced adjustment. By the way I have worked with many good health officials over the last three decades and this was taught to me by a Chiropractor saying this is what they don't want you to know. In many cases you don't need them. It is a simple techinque but takes 20 minutes in all and every one should do this three nights a week. This is the ending of our adult class with specific music and people fall asleep even snore.

I adjusted his work out to be soft stretching no kicking and added aditional lower lumbar stretches and by the end of class his pain was reduced by 80% and his flexablity and mobility was increased by 100%

I think in two weeks he will be back full movement and training. When he came in he thought it was all over? Don't be fooled by people who say they are in shape oh I lift weights and such in general the American public are developed all linear one line and the moment they shift or go sideways they can get a serious injuries in a heart beat.

I recomend getting good physical theropists and chiropractors for seminars even as students if possible. I consistantly get referals from theropists or other health care professionals for thier patients becasue they know I will follow and colaborate in a training program that heals the patient and this includes all ages. I also work with pregnant women the right kind of MA training with music is very good for the mother and the child to come. Warning in a multilevel class kids adults you have to have to be able to multi task and have a plan. While the kids are doing a high impact action seperate the adults to work on forms, self defense or conditioning. If its joint then the adults must do each action appropiate for thier age and health status.

For the Health training adults only class if you have the facility and time use your slowest days maybe Tuesday, Thurday and Saturday morings just for that class. Many peopel after 90 days feel healthy enough they want more and then start training 2-3 additional days in TKD they also become life long markety agents to increase your membership and financial support for non-profit programs.

 

[granfire]

My 17 year old son and I talked about this thread yesterday before team practice. Besides the lack-of-time factor and parents putting their money into their kids rather than themselves, we both think that a big but seldom mentioned factor is that adults are less willing to become beginners again and go through that awkward "I don't know anything and I can't move right" phase.

What I'd call 'beginner's mind'--the willingness to just be a fearless kid and try until you get it, is less common in adults. Adults don't want to embarrass themselves in front of others. They have life experience and confidence built from perseverence, so it's hard for some to go back to being a beginner. They also seem to believe that being a beginner is for the young, when bodies are flexible, energized, and heal overnight (it seems). Interestingly, I think the best students are the people who are most fearless about trying new things and tinkering with it until they get it.

So how does one address this? There was another thread on this topic a few months ago. I think the key is to build a core group and then grow it through word-of-mouth. Adults can handle more information and like to be challenged yet praised for their accomplishments as well. While there are great benefits to mixed-age classes, I think an adults-only class is the best way to build your adult membership. That's what we do, and we've grown from 7 to 15 adults in the last 10 months. Two were walk-ins; the others are parents or word-of-mouth.

Carl

Most adults don't what to be in a class with kids. Either they have their own kids, or they didn't want any to begin with. Also the kid classes usually are structured differently. Kids have an attention span of a gnat. Old people need a bit longer on an exercise - usually

I think if a school were actually to promote their adult classes with adult beginners. I mean, there are a lot of us that started as adult It makes the new guy/gal feel better that they are not alone and that they can accomplish things even if they didn't start before they could walk.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I have found that adults who dont start alone seem to stick around longer even if there are kids in the class. Either start with a mate or a husband and wife starting together or a couple of work mates, it gives them someone else there at their level and someone they can go away and throw some ideas around with or train together. I started with a mate who Ive known practically my whole life and we often sit around now and wonder what we used to talk about before we started because these days its all tkd and having someone else who shares your passion helps a lot particularly in the early stages. Maybe this is why many clubs have offers like 'two join for the price of one' or special deals for those that introduce a friend to the club etc

 

[StudentCarl]

... having someone else who shares your passion helps a lot particularly in the early stages.

It's not the key to getting people in the door, but it is key to retention. It's important to teach your existing students that a part of their job is to welcome and include guests and new people. The key, I think, is to get your students to see themselves not just as consumers/students, but as ambassadors for your school. Pride and belief in your school and master is a foundation of this. This is something you can nurture, but some people just make better ambassadors than others.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It's not the key to getting people in the door, but it is key to retention. It's important to teach your existing students that a part of their job is to welcome and include guests and new people. The key, I think, is to get your students to see themselves not just as consumers/students, but as ambassadors for your school. Pride and belief in your school and master is a foundation of this. This is something you can nurture, but some people just make better ambassadors than others.

Quite true. Keeping egos in check plays a big part in this. I am blessed to train in a class full of high ranking black belts (many are 4th-6th dan) and yet there is absolutely no ego in the room whatsoever, everyone is approachable, modest and eager to help out wherever possible. This creates an atmosphere where people want to come to class and train.

 

[granfire]

Quite true. Keeping egos in check plays a big part in this. I am blessed to train in a class full of high ranking black belts (many are 4th-6th dan) and yet there is absolutely no ego in the room whatsoever, everyone is approachable, modest and eager to help out wherever possible. This creates an atmosphere where people want to come to class and train.

I always figured it to be a great way to have more people to play with. Adult classes always seemed to be small.

I also love to spar with beginners. (naturally it strokes my ego when they are all timid ) I want to have more people to work with later so I have to make sure it's a fun experience for them.