How Many Kata am I or are You Doing?

[Jin Gang]

When you are first learning, the five pinan or the three naihanchi, or other similar kata like this definately feel like seperate kata. You're learning new techniques constantly, and each one feels like a big step forward.
As time goes on, perceptions change.

I count the three naihanchi as the same kata. You could easily perform them one after the next without a break, and they are very short in length individually. They contain the same footwork and techniques. Some Chinese styles teach forms like this, as well, breaking them into short sections.
I don't count the basics training exercises as kata or forms at all (even though they might be called kata). taikyoku and fukyugata I feel are in this category.

When counting the number of forms I practice, I count the larger forms/systems, not the sectional breakdowns.
Of shorin ryu, I stick with 8 kata. That would be 10 if I counted naihanchi as three instead of one.
Of Chinese/Indonesian style, I am maintaining 15 emptyhand forms.
If I counted all the sections of forms that I learned individually, there would be more like 23 forms.

 

[JWLuiza]

I think a more interesting question is: How are patterns stored in memory? This also brings up the question: How are forms learned?

I am going to hazard a guess that Pinans and Taikyoku kata are stored as individual forms. And maybe we get better compression, if I can analogize to digital data, as we progress.

For example, when I learned the moves to Gojushiho, it took about 45 minutes because I associated large chunks as one unit that referenced forms I already knew. However, now I have a cognitive unit of "Gojushiho Dai"

 

[Jin Gang]

Yes, the longer patterns are learned more quickly when they include portions which we have already memorized.
I guess I would have to ask what is the definition of a "form" or "kata". Technically, any memorized sequence of movemente could be a kata or a form. Two techniques strung together and practiced the same way repeatedly is a kata. In my kung fu style we have what we call a series of "short forms", which are each made up of two to five movements. These movements are considered the "basics", and are practiced like kihon in some styles, they occur in different combinations in many of the long forms. There are also qinna techniques, each of which might be considered a form, just like judo has "kata". I could count each memorized sequence of grappling holds, escapes and counters as a form. Also, there are two person patterns, "one step sparring" drills, or prearranged fighting sequences that include three moves each.
If I counted all these patterns I have learned, then I know well over 100 forms! So the question is, what are we really meaning when we ask "how many kata"? I think that most people are thinking of kata as more than just the technical definition/usage of the word.
People think of a kata as a sequence with some minimum number of techniques/steps included. Just two moves together wouldn't qualify. You may consider that each kata presents some sort of overall fighting strategy, each one has a different "style". And also, of course, whatever your school or teacher chose to call a "kata" is a kata. If it's a grading requirement, then it's a "kata".

What I call a kata or form, in this case, is a sequence of techniques of some unspecified minimum length (more than 2 - 5 moves), which presents a certain fighting style or practices a method of force/energy generation (often both). This is why I call the three naihanchi as one kata, not three. This is why they say it is hard to really master just one or two kata. Each style has so many lessons and techniques to learn, you could really just focus on one or two and still have a "complete" style.

 

[rmclain]

I study a system called Chayon-Ryu, meaning "Natural Way." Though the founder, Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo, is Korean, this is not a system of Taekwondo. He grew up during the Japanese occupation of Korea and learned karate and Chuan-fa at the Chang-moo Kwan and learned forms from each style. He adopted 11 taekwondo forms when they were created (1967), but the majority of the forms are from karate and chuan-fa.

Since this is a karate section, I will list the karate forms we practice up to 5th Dan. I'll use the Korean names, but will insert the Japanese and Okinawan names where I know them.

Kibon Hyung 1-5 (Kihon kata)
Pyung Ahn 1-5 (Heian, Pinan)
Shipsoo (Jut-te)
Balsek Tae (Bassai Dai)
Balsek Sho (Bassai So)
No Nai (Ro Hai)
Ahm Hak (Chinto)
Chulki 1-3 (Tekki, Naihanchi)
Wanshu (Enpi)
Cha'un (Jion)
Ban Wol (Hangetsu)
Kong Son Kun (Kusanku Dai)
Ship Pal (Sei Pai)
Oh Ship Sa Bo (Gojushiho)
Jinsoo

R. McLain

 

[eyebeams]

Yukigainen (which is not really kata as most people think of it)
Shihangata (which again, is not really kata as most people think of it)
Kennin (never seen this one anywhere else)
Seisan (nothing like the standard karate Seisan)
Naihanchi (not the same as the typical karate Naihanchi)

There are two more sets in the system, along with armed kobudo, which I have some familiarity with.

What else do I know? From kung fu:

The Yang 24 set
Xingyiquan linking fist
Mizongluohan Tantui (a version of 12-road Tantui)
Gongliquan (Another typical Jingmo set with a Mizong flavour)

I have sketchy memories of forms from various other arts I've done, but my current concentrations are in Kempo, JKD, Mizongluohan and Xingyiquan, and MMA.

I would say that Kennin, Seisan, Tantui and linking fist are where I go first to explore applications.

I suppose all the arts I currently study would have a combined 16 or so empty handed forms. This is not a lot and pretty much what I prefer.