How many have regular First Aid corses required for instructors....


Feb 15, 2002
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Scottsdale, Arizona
in their studios........ I had a student break his arm in one sparring class, would you or one of your students know what to do other than dial 911?

I am certified in First Aid, CPR and Bllod Born Pathogens, at one time I was an EMT. My co-owner/assistant/wife:D was at one time a Paramedic and is a RN. I think we have it covered!
At the school I help teach at the head instructor is a police officer so I think he's got the basics down, CPR, first aid. I did learn CPR when I was in the Boy Scouts but that was allmost 30 years ago!
One of out students is a EMT so we have that going for us.

The kenpo school I go to I don't know if they are or not. My instructor seems to have pretty good knowledge of anatomy so he might know CPR etc..

Good question.

Story: years ago when I was in TKD I was working out with my friend at an affiliate school and he broke a guys arm with a side kick. We just patted the guy on the back, called him a wimp for stopping and told him to go the hospital and get it fixed, and to hurry up about it :D

Well I have to admit I don't knoe as much as I should. I've been certified in basic first aid, Small watercraft safety, and life saving. This training includes basic first aif and mouth to mouth, but not CPR. I think this training is a very good idea. I intend to get CPR certified asap. Good Subject!!!
I have had CPR and First Aid, certification lapsed last year so I have to renew. Usually my job requires it, but somehow they quit.

The only other Kenpo Black Belt in my school now, Mike Durkin, is an ER nurse, so no worries when he is there. The hospital he works for is right down the frontage road less than a mile, but I am glad you brought this up Dennis, it reminds me that I intend to require CPR for Brown and above.

We had an unfortunate accident here in Austin about 3 years ago. A Black Belt in American Karate got kicked in the chest, heart went into fibrillation and he was DOA at the hospital. Interesting to note is that they did do CPR on him, from the time he went down until at the hospital, but could not resuscitate. Things like this scare me, it was not preventable without a chest protecter and the sparring class was not one where they were trashing each other. According to my ER nurse student, it is a matter of timing - not force to fibrillate the heart. It would not take a kick or an overwhelming punch to do this.
Insurance and pre-paid legal service anyone? The school did close due to the owner being overwhelmed by this incident. He has not reopened but I see his students occassionally trying to continue their training.

CPR is a good thing, there is no negligance if you do your best to keep someone alive. In Texas there is a Good Samaritan law, allowing the most qualified individual to do their best to keep someone alive, without fear of repurcussion if they fail.

Sorry I went on so long, but you really brought something to the forefront that is important, that I have neglected too long!

Michael Billings
IMHO everyone in the studio should be certified..... YOU NEVER KNOW when I may be giving a seminar near you and YOU BETTER take good care of me.!!!LOL j/k

seriously...... it would not hurt you or your insurance carrier not to mention the individual that you may save in your class if anything would happen....... and I don't mean due to class...... what about just a plain old heart attack or stroke...... it can happen to anyone at any age!

A great Idea for all instructors and staff or helpers........ local fire departments sometimes do free demos and certifications. check into it......... the life someone saves may be yours!!
Spooky story Mr. Billings :( I never thought about that happening in sparring. I heard about it happening in youth baseball, but not martial arts. Did you know the owner of the school?


Hmmm, this is a difficult one for me.

I know multiple cases where the family was
able sue in civil course because some one was
certified and unable to lend the appropriate
assistance to keep someone alive. This was back
in the 80's though, I hope things have changed
for the better.

But, I have never heard of anyone being sued
if they tried and they were not certified.

I guess it all really matters to the local
school, local legal environment, etc., ..., .

I general I would have to say it would be
beneficial for people to be certified.
Then any one could anyone else.

I agree, If someone has the inclenation to learn how to hurt, they should also know how to heal........

All of the senior members of my club have the training and its HIGHLY reccomended based on a couple deacdes in the Martial Arts.

I teach CPR, SFA, Sport Safety Training, and a few others as well and make sure that I can personally walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Injuries do happen, and the ability to calmly control a situation can make the different on the return of a student to your school post care, and also your reputation as a well rounded martial artist.
In our business accidents DO happen and we need at least a minimal level of knowledge to help someone. Not only that but it is as great public service to require it in your studios for anywhere an accident may happen..... it could be a great self confidence builder if at sometime someone from your class saves a life..... they will remember where they learned the skills just as much as saving themselves in a physical altercation.

I was told by my insurance carrier that posting my certifications was just law suit food. Basically, being certified is me stating that I am qualified, and then if I am wrong, bam!:rolleyes:

So, I let my certs lapse, but keep updated on my knowledge thru the nurses, EMTs, doctors, surgical techs, and PAs that train with me. There is generally at least one in every class.

When I was teaching full time, I made first aid and CPR a component of the 3rd degree Brown Belt. I only had one person complain about having to learn it. One of my first students is a certified CPR and first aid instructor and he would come in for a weekend and teach anybody who wanted to learn, he only charged me $100.00 for the weekend. That was to cover the certification process. Over the yrs we probably had over 100 people get certified at the school.

First Aid training should be mandatory for anyone wishing to instruct the martial arts.
I can see your point...... but I would get a second opinion from a few more carriers....... Ones around here that I have talked to say that it is better because it shows that you care enough to submit to additional training for your students.
It does show qualifications.... and that usually is received as a positive thing.

Bottom line is....... no matter what you have it you show "Gross Negligence" you will or could be in deep doo doo easily. But the more you talk about safety in every class and require as many safety measures to your studio and rules..... you will be much safer in the long run.... that comes from several lawyer students that I have had over the years.

>I know multiple cases where the family was
>able sue in civil course because some one was
>certified and unable to lend the appropriate
>assistance to keep someone alive. This was back
>in the 80's though, I hope things have changed
>for the better.

some states have good samaritan laws in place just for things like this you might want to look into would you be more liable..standing and doing nothing? or giving an honest attempt to help? You can sue anybody for anything so getting sued isnt the issue, them being able to actually win is.

Excellent point,

Doing something is important even if its "JUST" calling 911 to report an accident.

Three points constantly beaten into students heads-oooops:D

1) NEVER exceed your current level of CERTIFIED TRAINING in the field. This means what you are a card carrying, certified by authorized agency skills at. NOT ustabee....

2) Be Familiar with Good Samaritan Laws for your particular state, my case Quad-(4)state area.

3) Think about it, plan ahead for medical contingencies, and PLEASE train in the skills more than "Once a year" or "My card just expired"
Originally posted by Goldendragon7

In our business accidents DO happen

With Respect Dennis,

Accidents DON'T happen, they are caused.

Regardless, I and one of my assistant instructors have a UK recognised First Aid Certificate, and so do several students.

At the start of each class, when we line up, I ask if anyone has any injuries we should be aware of, and tell the class who is the "designated first aider" for the class.

At the end of the class, I ask if anyone has gained any injuries during the class. I have an accident book, in which any and every incident is recorded. This is to protect me against any comebacks. In the event of an accident, the relevant details are recorded, along with any first aid given. My students know that they MUST report any mishaps. If it isn't in the book, it didn't happen.

The legal definition of an accidentis an event that is unforeseeable and unpreventable. So in a way, you are both right. In our business, accidents do happen. Unfortunately, a judge would feel that it oculd have been prevented. Thus the need fo rinsurance and liability waivers. Also keep in mind, ours is what's called an inherently dangerous activity. A person assumes a measure of liabilty for themselves by enrolling for the class. So what it winds up boiling down to, was the responsible party negligible? Did he/she did everything they could to prevent the mishap and how was it handled afterwards? This leads us right back to my thread about having to let a student go:(