How Long?

[MJS]

Many times, when people first start their martial arts journey, one of the questions that comes up is, "How long will it take before I'll know enough to defend myself?" Now, I suppose thats an open ended question, as the possibilities are endless, but at the same time, I think its a valid question to ask. Of course, the next thing to ask of that person is, "What do you want to defend yourself against?" I mean, defending against someone punching you, kicking you, grabbing you, grappling with you, attacking with a weapon....each will take different amounts of time.

So, for the sake of starting the thread off, (and we can always expand the questions later ) lets say we're just talking about empty hand defense. So, what should it take...2 months, a year, 10yrs?

Yes, I know that the arts are a lifelong journey and some may think this question should not matter, but if you're looking for self defense, I dont think that you should have to spend 20yrs before you're capable of fending off a simple attack.

Thoughts?

 

[TheWellWisher]

I think the question should how long does it take to instinctively use your art. After you have done it for long enough and trained hard enough it should just be the way you fight. Depends what art it is as well. Something like boxing would be easier to get into the hang of then lets say JKD.

 

[Nolerama]

A lot of SD classes I've taken always push situational awareness in the first class.

It might seem like a no-brainer, but to a lot of people who come across that concept for the first time, the looks on their faces scream, "Oh! Never thought about it like that before!"

To me, situational awareness concepts are the cornerstone of SD.

So in many respects, people are able to defend themselves better after the first day.

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

That depends on the student, the teacher, the training regiment, etc.

I'd say that with in a few months you'll start to show some form.

You shouldn't have to train for 20 years to defend yourself, you should train 20 years or more because you can. Muscles can forget as easily as they remember.

 

[suicide]

i guess it depends on you , cause ive seen some weak a__ black belts that i know anyone of the street can whoop with ease also alot of females no disrespect but it is what it is , i mean it also depends on the situation if its just like some road rage and a guy pulls you over to fight he might get the best of you if your slipping and dont react fast enuff or sucker punched in a bar cause you were drinking and your awareness wasnt 100% it all depends - guy might come at you in a mall parking lot with a knife or gun to carjack you and your 15 years of exp. will kick into overdrive and youll survive at any cost - i was stabbed like 10 years ago and i remember it was like it was all happening in slow motion with my left hand pushed/outward block/grabbed his hand with the knife ' cracked him in his jaw and nose - forced a mini osoto gari took the knife and threw it over the fence and stomped his a__ out :rpo:

 

[Xue Sheng]

It depends on a lot of things including the style

For example they say (whoever they are)

Wing Chun about 1 year

Xingyiquan about 2 years

Taijiquan about 6 years

But those times rough estimates and they are highly dependant on talent and how much and how hard you train the given style and none of those equates to master or high level just a rudimentary understanding so that you may be able to defend yourself with that style. And as always your mileage may vary.

 

[Live True]

MJS, I hope I am not taking this off on a total tangent, but I think I tend to agree with Nolerama.

If you are paying attention and actually practicing on your own as well as in class, then I think you are better off than you were after only a few classes. Your awareness and understanding of a confrontation will have changed (improved hopefully). I think the #1 reason a lot of attacks happen is because folks are blissfully unaware of thier surroundings and other people. This doesn't mean you're ready to take on the bully down the road, but you are better prepared than you were.

I guess I view it this way. I'm in this for the long haul, and I hope to be improving incrementally on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. So, today I will be a little better and faster or stronger or...what have you...than I was yesterday. So each day I am better able to defend myself than I was the day/week/etc before.

Does that mean I'm ready to take on a rapist in an alley? um..no...first, I will do my level best not to be alone in an alley. Second, I will be aware of my surroundings, particularly of being followed. Third, I will be evaluating my options if the oddball happens and I am being followed in an alley (hmm...there's a nice short pointy stick..adn there's a brick...and I see an open doorway to a restaurant about two blocks ahead). Finally, I am steadily amassing knowledge in technique and building innate skills that I hope will serve me well.

So...I think if you are a student who is focused on your training, you will steadily improve and get closer to that ideal of "ready" as you continue to train. As for being ready to defend against all comers...well...everyone has good and bad days...but I think giving a fair account truly depends on the student, thier attitude, and thier physical shape...not just thier training.

 

[MJS]

I think the question should how long does it take to instinctively use your art. After you have done it for long enough and trained hard enough it should just be the way you fight. Depends what art it is as well. Something like boxing would be easier to get into the hang of then lets say JKD.

Well, that begs the question...how long? What determines the length?

 

[MJS]

A lot of SD classes I've taken always push situational awareness in the first class.

It might seem like a no-brainer, but to a lot of people who come across that concept for the first time, the looks on their faces scream, "Oh! Never thought about it like that before!"

To me, situational awareness concepts are the cornerstone of SD.

So in many respects, people are able to defend themselves better after the first day.

MJS, I hope I am not taking this off on a total tangent, but I think I tend to agree with Nolerama.

If you are paying attention and actually practicing on your own as well as in class, then I think you are better off than you were after only a few classes. Your awareness and understanding of a confrontation will have changed (improved hopefully). I think the #1 reason a lot of attacks happen is because folks are blissfully unaware of thier surroundings and other people. This doesn't mean you're ready to take on the bully down the road, but you are better prepared than you were.

I guess I view it this way. I'm in this for the long haul, and I hope to be improving incrementally on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. So, today I will be a little better and faster or stronger or...what have you...than I was yesterday. So each day I am better able to defend myself than I was the day/week/etc before.

Does that mean I'm ready to take on a rapist in an alley? um..no...first, I will do my level best not to be alone in an alley. Second, I will be aware of my surroundings, particularly of being followed. Third, I will be evaluating my options if the oddball happens and I am being followed in an alley (hmm...there's a nice short pointy stick..adn there's a brick...and I see an open doorway to a restaurant about two blocks ahead). Finally, I am steadily amassing knowledge in technique and building innate skills that I hope will serve me well.

So...I think if you are a student who is focused on your training, you will steadily improve and get closer to that ideal of "ready" as you continue to train. As for being ready to defend against all comers...well...everyone has good and bad days...but I think giving a fair account truly depends on the student, thier attitude, and thier physical shape...not just thier training.

Great posts! And no, you're not taking it off topic.

To answer my own question...I think that a foundation needs to be built. Blocks, punches, kicks, footwork....thats a start in the right direction. To expand on this...I would run a technique line after the end of some of my classes. Students would line up or form a circle, one person would be in the middle or at the front of the line, and everyone else would attack. Sometimes I'd have the students throw random attacks, and other times, I'd tell them what to throw. I'd often have a newbie who would not know a set technique for the attack that was thrown. I got the deer in the headlights look. I'd ask, "Do you know how to block, punch, kick, move, etc?" to which I got a yes reply. I'd then say, "Ok, then defend yourself!" You could see the lightbulb going off.

Now, while these people were still new, so to speak, my goal was to get them to just react, not to think so much. IMO, if the basics are drilled into the student, then against a simple attack, I see no reason why, after a few months, the student should be capable of defending simple attacks.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Remember there are people there without any MA training...that can fight a good fight!

Sometimes all it takes is one punch to knock anyone out with out any MA training!

Some people learn quicker than others...

How long to take to learn? ...a poke in the eyes, learning to strike the throat, groin hitting? ....finger up the nose and roll the person over? ...

Many techniques? ....do not take years to learn? ....how long did it take you to play basket ball, baseball, etc...

...now to be "excellant" ....ah! that may take longer...

Aloha, ...if only could sing too...