how hard do you hit a heavybag

[Brother John]

you have to allow time for your wrist to get conditioned. Within time you will have that bag flying all over the place

I agree with "Danniel my brother"...
You've got to work up to it.
Use GLOVES!!!

work on proper weapon formation!!!
I don't understand how bag work is affecting your ankle... you mean with kicks??

Do you have any regularly occuring joint problems?

Your Brother
John

 

[cfr]

I realize this thread addresses just heavy bag, but --
- do you alternate punching with kicking to give your hands a rest, as TigerWoman suggests?
- do you practice your punches on other bags - i.e., speed bag - so that the workout isn't always the same?

Probably not enough. Yes.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Probably not enough. Yes.

cfr, what is it that you wish to accomplish re: your heavy bag work? Let's start there.

AJ

 

[DeLamar.J]

Ive got a few injuries now from heavy bags. Nothing serious, but certainly nagging. Ive heard that not everyone hits them with full force for this very reason. What about you? Im starting to think my training would be better off for the long haul with more speed/ constant and less power training? What about you guys? Im just certainly tired of being injured.

When I do heavy bag training I hit as hard as I can most of the time. If your going to do hard bag work make sure to go up to dicks sporting goods and get yourself some good handwraps and bag gloves so you dont get a wrist injury. Never ever hit on the bag hard without hand wraps and bag gloves or your asking for it. And if you want to condition your knucles hit on a kom bon, I think thats how you spell it. Alot of people will hit the bag with no gloves for knucle conditioning, I think its a bad idea. :boxing:

 

[RHD]

Hit the heavy bag with palm strikes as hard as you like! Less chance of injury, more powerful striking. If it's a "fists only" situation then 3/4 turn punches as PPKO stated for reverse punches and definately wrap those hqands and wrists. Heavy bags are often treated as blasting bags...The idea here is to work up to this slowly over a longer period of time and then work at varying levels of power and speed. slower to work on technique, harder for power, faster for speed, etc...

Mike

 

[cfr]

I always use bag gloves. My goal is to hit harder. I hurt my shoulder doing a chest high elbow.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I always use bag gloves. My goal is to hit harder. I hurt my shoulder doing a chest high elbow.

Really, maybe you should be practicing technique? I've never really "hurt" myself on the bag, that seems to happen more in sparring, lol. Maybe your strikes aren't being executed properly? I literally fold my bag in half with elbow strikes, i can't see how you'd be getting hurt. I my experience, though limited compared to others, speed and power are all derived from good technique. Maybe you could explain how you are striking the bag, and that might help? I can give you tons of bag drills to do for conditioning, i.e. toughening up your body for sparring and the like, as well as improving your stamina.

AJ

 

[DeLamar.J]

I always use bag gloves. My goal is to hit harder. I hurt my shoulder doing a chest high elbow.

Ahh, sounds like you just need to condition your body. It takes a little time to get used to blasting a heavy bag without hurting yourself. I have trained in boxing most of my life and I still hurt my wrist at times when Im feeling winded and weak, then throw a hard shot without proper tension in my wrist because of feeling tired and getting sloppy. Just take it slow and condition your body, and work on technique.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Really, maybe you should be practicing technique? I've never really "hurt" myself on the bag, that seems to happen more in sparring, lol. Maybe your strikes aren't being executed properly? I literally fold my bag in half with elbow strikes, i can't see how you'd be getting hurt. I my experience, though limited compared to others, speed and power are all derived from good technique. Maybe you could explain how you are striking the bag, and that might help? I can give you tons of bag drills to do for conditioning, i.e. toughening up your body for sparring and the like, as well as improving your stamina.

AJ

So, share! Can only help us all. Thanks. KT

p.s. - love doing elbow strikes on the bag - and palm strikes. have yet to fold it in half, but i'm working on it.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

So, share! Can only help us all. Thanks. KT

p.s. - love doing elbow strikes on the bag - and palm strikes. have yet to fold it in half, but i'm working on it.

Well, i frequently do what i call step(ladder)-striking. Something my old instructor had me do. I set the timer to three minutes and do twenty-five reps of each of my strikes (various punches, kicks+ knees and elbows) until the three min is up. The idea is to fatigue yourself by executing the strikes as hard and as fast as possible. Another that i do is set the timer to one minute and do as many reps of one strike as i can do. In this exercise I try to circle the bag, first one direction, then back. With nobody holding the bag, this can be trickier than you'd think. Another great bag trick, which I also use with pads, is to do 25 reps of a particular strike, after your bag/pad round is done. That really wears you out. Additionally, for stamina, rather than rest 1min in-between your rounds, jump-rope. Also, just to clarify, I never just wail on the bag. I run drills with specific combinations. Save the mixing up for sparring, when you have to mix it up, otherwise i try to train my brain to immediately execute a series of combos as much as possible.

For the drills I only use my wraps. As far as conditioning goes, the wraps protect your knuckles just enough. I think fairtex.com has a link to show how to wrap your hands step-by-step. To condition myself for sparring I work the bag with 18oz. gloves. You'd be surprised how heavy 1 lb. can be! lol

For specific strikes, that's a bit harder, Muay Thai is pretty simple, just a lot of repetitious training. But I am happy to help with any more suggestions.

AJ

 

[Kane]

Ive got a few injuries now from heavy bags. Nothing serious, but certainly nagging. Ive heard that not everyone hits them with full force for this very reason. What about you? Im starting to think my training would be better off for the long haul with more speed/ constant and less power training? What about you guys? Im just certainly tired of being injured.

I usually punch my punching bag bare-handed, and have never got any injuries ever. I was so overconfident; I then started to punch a much harder substance. I don't think it was built the same way as a hard punching bag or not. In fact, I think it was much harder (it was actually a large dummy you are supposed to hang on the wall). Anyway, on the second day of starting to punch this MUCH harder dummy bag, skin from my front large knuckle kind of got loose, and peeled a little. It actually didn't hurt that much. But it can sting if something falls in it. Nothing worse than that though.

Anyway, since then I wrap clothing around my knuckles and should be enough. Honestly, you don't need any fancy tape to protect you knuckles. Even a sock would work!

However, I've never punched a HARD punching bag, but I assume this dummy was harder so the same care should work fine. Cheers!

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I usually punch my punching bag bare-handed, and have never got any injuries ever. I was so overconfident; I then started to punch a much harder substance. I don't think it was built the same way as a hard punching bag or not. In fact, I think it was much harder (it was actually a large dummy you are supposed to hang on the wall). Anyway, on the second day of starting to punch this MUCH harder dummy bag, skin from my front large knuckle kind of got loose, and peeled a little. It actually didn't hurt that much. But it can sting if something falls in it. Nothing worse than that though.

Anyway, since then I wrap clothing around my knuckles and should be enough. Honestly, you don't need any fancy tape to protect you knuckles. Even a sock would work!

However, I've never punched a HARD punching bag, but I assume this dummy was harder so the same care should work fine. Cheers!

Generally speaking, a heavy bag is a "hard" bag. I don't reccommend puching one without wraps, for the benefit of your wrists, too. wraps are like $5 at big five and a million other places.

 

[kenpo tiger]

You can get wraps for even less than that online. I got mine through my bag training instructor, who also showed me how to wrap my hands. Yes, you can practice with just the wraps, but I wouldn't recommend it unless your knuckles are used to it. I do my push-ups on my knuckles (used to do them on wood, also, but my current school doesn't encourage it) to condition them so they don't split when I hit something. Also, if you break wood as part of your curriculum, it helps.
AJ- thanks for the tips! I'll let you know how I do with them. KT

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

You can get wraps for even less than that online. I got mine through my bag training instructor, who also showed me how to wrap my hands. Yes, you can practice with just the wraps, but I wouldn't recommend it unless your knuckles are used to it. I do my push-ups on my knuckles (used to do them on wood, also, but my current school doesn't encourage it) to condition them so they don't split when I hit something. Also, if you break wood as part of your curriculum, it helps.AJ- thanks for the tips! I'll let you know how I do with them. KT

yeah, i do p-ups on my knuckles. . .i've always trained using just wraps. . .wasn't 'till i started sparring again that i used gloves. those little buggers can get heavy. also, i just use short wraps for training, rather than fight wraps. the short wraps don't go around your fingers, so more conditioning takes place. Also, if you need more bag tips, let me know, they're simple but effective. happy ma ing all!

AJ

 

[Ippon Ken]

If you are a karate-ka, then you will want to work up to hitting the heavy bag with full force, speed and strength, w/o wraps or gloves. If you're a young person (younger than 15-16) then you might want to initially wrap your hands, until your knuckles, wrists and bones get use to the impact. If you do makiwara work you'll find that hitting the heavybag w/o gloves or wraps is actually really easy. If you have never hit something as solid as a heavybag, then work your way up to doing it full force. You can start by doing knuckle push-ups (first two knuckles only), adequate upper body stretching and light makiwara work. Use focus mitts and smaller striking pads first, start hitting the heavybag with control, not reckless abandon. This is why real MAs take years to master. Those that force the issue often wind-up being more damaging to the practititioner than any assumed foe could ever be.

If you are a yudansha level karate-ka, and you still use wraps/gloves and hit the bag only 1/2-3/4 force then you are not a real karate-ka. You are going through the motions, but a heavybag is really not a rough or hard surface for a properly trained BB, and so if you use hand protection then you are selling your art and training short. In the street every strike is full force, with bad intention(s) behind them. No set-ups or soft jabs, just crisp punches that go through the target, never overextend them. You need to condition your body for hard contact, bone-on-bone, and although this can be accomplished with koteate/kotekitai, kumite and such, you'll never be able to truly have the confidence or "iron body" needed to make karate really street effective. This is what's missing in many dojo nowadays.

If you are injuring your joints, then you need to increase your overall strength and flexibilty by stretching your whole body before and after doing bag work, and by lifting weights. If you do the traditional hojo undo of Okinawan karate, where you use earthen jars, chi-ishi and such then you are a step ahead of most modern karate-ka. If you don't have access to these tools of the trade weight lifting will definitely help your joints and bones, as well as ligaments and other connective tissue strength. You also need to use proper biomechanics. Keep your elbows in on linear punches and don't wing any of your punches, even the hooks. Strike using hip rotation (the body as a unit) and the power of rising and falling. Keep your fist vertical or better yet at a 3/4 turn (in between vertical and flat/horizontal). Do kata with focus and good structural "ki" and you'll increase sinew strength, too.

For your kicks, learn to whip them through the target in a relaxed manner, bringing your leg back quickly as soon as you penetrate the target. Get both legs back in your base as fast as possible. Balance is the key to movement and fighting. Doing that baseball bat MT kick as a novice will lead to personal injury. This is even true of the MT practitioners who do these haymaker, over extended strikes for a living. Many are crippled before 55 and that is the main reason you don't see 70 year old MT masters on the whole. You can practice push kicks and thrusts, but fast kicks are what will give you a chance to get the weapon there. The strength will come with time and increased speed.

One last thing. If you are working on a community bag, like a bag at the your local gym, using weight gloves or light wraps might be a good idea for infection control. You don't know who's been hitting it and if they bled on it, they may have Hepatitis or some other blood-borne disease. Although the chances are slim you'd contract the disease, it is better to be safe than sorry. Using an inch of wrap or padded bag gloves is for boxers and beginning karateka, not people who will need to hit without big cushions on their hands. Light wraps will be adequate protection from "bugs" and such.

Remember that the last 3 knuckles do not articulate (make contact with) the "wrist bones". Styles that teach hitting hard targets with the middle, ring and pinky finger knuckles are suspect. If their masters really understood the mechanics of delivering a hard and effective bare-knuckle punch, they would never teach the incorrect method (JKD and Wing Chun come to mind). The first two knuckles are in line with the bigger bone of your forearm (the radius) and they articulate with the wrist bones. For this reason contact with your target should be made primarily with these knuckles, the others taking a very minor load. I write this stuff to help out. Take it or leave it, but this where supplemental training differs amongst the various MAs and Combat Sports. Be careful of "Boxer's Fractures" and sprained wrists.

Peace and safe training...

 

[Shogun]

I hit a heavy bag pretty hard yesterday. I was shin kicking at full force w/no injury, but My knuckles are a little swollen.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

If you are a karate-ka, then you will want to work up to hitting the heavy bag with full force, speed and strength, w/o wraps or gloves. If you're a young person (younger than 15-16) then you might want to initially wrap your hands, until your knuckles, wrists and bones get use to the impact. If you do makiwara work you'll find that hitting the heavybag w/o gloves or wraps is actually really easy. If you have never hit something as solid as a heavybag, then work your way up to doing it full force. You can start by doing knuckle push-ups (first two knuckles only), adequate upper body stretching and light makiwara work. Use focus mitts and smaller striking pads first, start hitting the heavybag with control, not reckless abandon. This is why real MAs take years to master. Those that force the issue often wind-up being more damaging to the practititioner than any assumed foe could ever be.

If you are a yudansha level karate-ka, and you still use wraps/gloves and hit the bag only 1/2-3/4 force then you are not a real karate-ka. You are going through the motions, but a heavybag is really not a rough or hard surface for a properly trained BB, and so if you use hand protection then you are selling your art and training short. In the street every strike is full force, with bad intention(s) behind them. No set-ups or soft jabs, just crisp punches that go through the target, never overextend them. You need to condition your body for hard contact, bone-on-bone, and although this can be accomplished with koteate/kotekitai, kumite and such, you'll never be able to truly have the confidence or "iron body" needed to make karate really street effective. This is what's missing in many dojo nowadays.

If you are injuring your joints, then you need to increase your overall strength and flexibilty by stretching your whole body before and after doing bag work, and by lifting weights. If you do the traditional hojo undo of Okinawan karate, where you use earthen jars, chi-ishi and such then you are a step ahead of most modern karate-ka. If you don't have access to these tools of the trade weight lifting will definitely help your joints and bones, as well as ligaments and other connective tissue strength. You also need to use proper biomechanics. Keep your elbows in on linear punches and don't wing any of your punches, even the hooks. Strike using hip rotation (the body as a unit) and the power of rising and falling. Keep your fist vertical or better yet at a 3/4 turn (in between vertical and flat/horizontal). Do kata with focus and good structural "ki" and you'll increase sinew strength, too.

For your kicks, learn to whip them through the target in a relaxed manner, bringing your leg back quickly as soon as you penetrate the target. Get both legs back in your base as fast as possible. Balance is the key to movement and fighting. Doing that baseball bat MT kick as a novice will lead to personal injury. This is even true of the MT practitioners who do these haymaker, over extended strikes for a living. Many are crippled before 55 and that is the main reason you don't see 70 year old MT masters on the whole. You can practice push kicks and thrusts, but fast kicks are what will give you a chance to get the weapon there. The strength will come with time and increased speed.

One last thing. If you are working on a community bag, like a bag at the your local gym, using weight gloves or light wraps might be a good idea for infection control. You don't know who's been hitting it and if they bled on it, they may have Hepatitis or some other blood-borne disease. Although the chances are slim you'd contract the disease, it is better to be safe than sorry. Using an inch of wrap or padded bag gloves is for boxers and beginning karateka, not people who will need to hit without big cushions on their hands. Light wraps will be adequate protection from "bugs" and such.

Remember that the last 3 knuckles do not articulate (make contact with) the "wrist bones". Styles that teach hitting hard targets with the middle, ring and pinky finger knuckles are suspect. If their masters really understood the mechanics of delivering a hard and effective bare-knuckle punch, they would never teach the incorrect method (JKD and Wing Chun come to mind). The first two knuckles are in line with the bigger bone of your forearm (the radius) and they articulate with the wrist bones. For this reason contact with your target should be made primarily with these knuckles, the others taking a very minor load. I write this stuff to help out. Take it or leave it, but this where supplemental training differs amongst the various MAs and Combat Sports. Be careful of "Boxer's Fractures" and sprained wrists.

Peace and safe training...

Not sure how to respond to this. . .kinda sounds like you're covertly knocking muay thai and wrapping in the guise of advise???

Doing that baseball bat MT kick as a novice will lead to personal injury. [to others] This is even true of the MT practitioners who do these haymaker, over extended strikes for a living. lol! Many are crippled before 55 and that is the main reason you don't see 70 year old MT masters on the whole. hahahahaha!

i have my own reservations about "quick, snappy" kicks. . .lol.

As far as a bag. . .you want to hit it without wraps, dude?. . .be my guest. My canvas kick bag would wipe the skin right off of your knuckles, as would my everlast 40lb leather, I'm sure. But hey, iron-man. . .all preaching aside anyone who spends anytime training with a bag will tell you to use wraps. . .who the hell wants a broken wrist to prove that they're a real karate-ka? Besides, i would argue that an "iron brain" makes MA "really street effective,' not an "iron man." (to suggest mauy thai's non-effective, *laughing hysterically* lol!)

 

[Pittbull]

When working for power I blast the bag.I also do speed combos at about half power.I currenly do not were bag gloves or wrap my hands: The eason is we have a low buget and can't afford any right now.

 

[kenpo tiger]

I write this stuff to help out. Be careful of "Boxer's Fractures" and sprained wrists.

Peace and safe training...

You know, you make an awful lot of sense when you aren't promulgating rap culture in your posts. Lots of good ideas in this one. KT

 

[MichiganTKD]

I will use the heavy bag before class to warmup and get a sweat going. For this I use light-medium contact. I focus on rhythm, timing, footwork, and penetrating force, but not much speed. Just a warmup.
Toward the end of class, after I am warmed up and stretched more, I can go more full tilt. I utilize roundhouse kicks, back and sliding side kicks, and some back roundhouse kicks. For roundhouse kicks, I focus more on rhythm and penetrating force rather than how many I can do in a given time. Sandbag practice is more about rhythm and power, so it's not a speed contest.
Side kick time is about power-being able to rip into the bag. I try to fold the bag in half. The bag weighs about 75 lbs, so it takes some effort. However, I've known guys that could. I've never known a better way to develop good side kicking. Good for middle and high roundhouses too. Again, not speed kicking, but timing and penetrating force.
I don't wear bag gloves and have never suffered an injury from bag use. Well actually, when I was younger and had to do 100 high roundhouse kicks on the bag regularly, I used to strip the skin off my instep because my kicking angle was wrong. I learned the correct way after that.