How fights get to the ground?

dmdfromhamilton

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I guess this is sort of a two part question

Part 1

Are there any statistics on what are the most used takedowns on the street and or MMA events

Part 2

Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?
 

Darksoul

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-Note to self: must remember to work on balance! When a person is hit, pushed, shoved, sweept...well, it may all come down (no pun intended) to their balance. Next thing you know, you're not just getting hit, you're getting your clothes trashed and dirty. I cannot think of any one technique that would be used more often than others to effect a takedown...food for thought.


A---)
 

shane23ss

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dmdfromhamilton said:
I guess this is sort of a two part question

Part 1

Are there any statistics on what are the most used takedowns on the street and or MMA events
I'm not sure, but my guess would be either your everyday tackle, or a sweep if your talking about a trained person.

Part 2

Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?
I would say most street fights go to the ground because one person either slips/trips on something and falls, or they are not use to being hit so when they are, it's kind of a shock and they lose balance and go down. That's how it went in pretty much every street fight I've ever witnessed.
 

MA-Caver

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dmdfromhamilton said:
I guess this is sort of a two part question

Part 1

Are there any statistics on what are the most used takedowns on the street and or MMA events

As far as the street takedowns, most of them go to the ground because one guy hit the other hard enough to cause him to black out, lose his balance, tripped over something or whatever. Can't speak for MMA events having never been to one... except maybe to say the fighter's skill.

dmdfromhamilton said:
Part 2

Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?
Uhh yes.
 

FearlessFreep

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Most street fights need not go to the ground. If they do it seems to be because a) someone slipped(see above) b) a LEO or bouncer was trying to subdue an opponent (and cuff them) or c) one of the fighters was trained in a fighting technique that favored that approach
 
J

jjmcc

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dmdfromhamilton said:
I guess this is sort of a two part question

Part 1

Are there any statistics on what are the most used takedowns on the street and or MMA events

Part 2

Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?
Most fights go to the ground because they get into a grapple and dont know what to do next. Also there is a good chance that the person you get into a fight with in the street would never have trained in any martial art so you have a advantage straight away but out on the streets anyone can beat anyone its noholesbarred theres no rules so if they bite scratch or even pick up a weapon to beat you or vice versa good on you for taking the initiative.....
 

MA-Caver

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jjmcc said:
Most fights go to the ground because they get into a grapple and dont know what to do next. Also there is a good chance that the person you get into a fight with in the street would never have trained in any martial art so you have a advantage straight away but out on the streets anyone can beat anyone its noholesbarred theres no rules so if they bite scratch or even pick up a weapon to beat you or vice versa good on you for taking the initiative.....
That is true to an extent. However; never take that chance ... ever! The glaring problem with fighting someone on the street is that you have NO idea what they know and have trained in. It would be extremely foolish to think other-wise. As the fight progresses they will reveal themselves and you can act accordingly ... this includes running away.
 

takadadojokeith

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dmdfromhamilton said:
Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?


Well, in my experience, fights usually go to the ground because it's easier for one guy to keep another in the same place so he can beat on him.
 

AC_Pilot

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Usually they end up on the ground because grappling/struggling at close range resulted in the pair going down, due to tripping or a simple rush of footwork/power by one of the fighters. The reason they ended up the ground is that neither one of them understood Weng Chun center line theory, and trapping range fighting. If a fighter is well trained and skilled in trapping range fighting, (and very few arts teach this) they will very likely not go down. Also, if a groundfighting/wrestler guy tries a "double leg" take down and gets an explosive knee or kick in his face or upper torso for his trouble, he will be the one going down, maybe with something broken.

If you want to stay off the ground look into JKD. We can fight on the ground as well but prefer not to :)

Briefly, the 4 ranges:

Kicking

Punching

Trapping

Grappling/Ground

We train in all 4 ranges and the TRANSITIONS to each range..
 

punisher73

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Pretty much what others have stated, but I thought I would throw this into the mix to put things into some perspective. A lot of times you hear the statistic that 90% (or around there) of fights go to the ground. This stat was heavily used by BJJ in the early promotions of their style. The stat was based on use of force reports done by the LAPD and complied that data and included the officers taking the suspect to the ground for handcuffing purposes.

The other statistic you hear from the striker approach is that 100% of the fights start standing up, which is incorrect also, since I know of people getting attacked while they are still sitting down at a table.

There are a lot of different factors that can lead to someone going to the ground but they can be pretty much summed up into 2 things, and even those two things will have some overlap.

1) Put there as a result of your opponents actions (getting punched, thrown, tackled, clinching up, etc.)

2) Loss of balance due to improper movement (slipping, tripping or stepping on an object, unaware of environmental factors, etc.)
 
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ghostdog2

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Don't know much about street fights, but in early UFC single and double leg takedowns seemed most prevalent. As fighters got more sophisticated, more upper body techniques appeared ( think Randy Couture ). Hip throws, suplex, etc. sometimes occur, but the old standby "tackle him" still seems to work for some people.
Good luck and watch out for those knees.
 

Sin

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It always happens with a take down or a tackle. You always wanna try and be on your feet in a fight but just rememmber when ever the fight turns into a wrestling match your arm locks Twi-Te and every other takedown turns into a submision hold. So don't panic when its on the ground you still have a well balenced arsonal of techniques at your disposal
 

hardheadjarhead

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dmdfromhamilton said:
I guess this is sort of a two part question

Part 1

Are there any statistics on what are the most used takedowns on the street and or MMA events

Part 2

Has anyone ever wondered wether street fights go to the ground because 1 person has skill or because one or both have been doing a little too much of this :drinkbeer or have been doing drugs?


You'll hear people say "95% of all street fights go to the ground." There is no documentation of this that I know of. It isn't necessarily true. While it might be likely that MORE fights are going to the ground with the recent rage in grappling/MMA, I know of nothing to verify this.

The figure may have come from studies of LEO's and their tactics. They do their best to take suspects to the ground, thereby to 'cuff them. I'm not positive of this, however.

Regards,


Steve
 

punisher73

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You'll hear people say "95% of all street fights go to the ground." There is no documentation of this that I know of. It isn't necessarily true. While it might be likely that MORE fights are going to the ground with the recent rage in grappling/MMA, I know of nothing to verify this.

The figure may have come from studies of LEO's and their tactics. They do their best to take suspects to the ground, thereby to 'cuff them. I'm not positive of this, however.
You are correct in that. I made a reference to that in my earlier post. The stats DID come from LAPD specifically and were heavily influenced by LEO's taking people down to the ground to cuff them.
 

BlackCatBonz

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i think a lot of it has to do with application as well....some people are simply more comfortable "wrestling"....i say this because when they are rolling around on the ground, next to running away, its the easiest way of defending yourself, by trying to hold your attacker at bay. i dont think that most people intentionally go to the ground to fight, it just happens to end up there sometimes.
this has been my experience from my years as a bouncer and a people watcher. ive seen many fights start, ive broken up many before they really started, and was "attacked" (and i use this term loosely) on many occasions.
the only time i ever went to the ground in a fight was to restrain someone (like the LEO stats), i would never go to the ground with the intent of taking a fight there to finish it.......if it ended up there, then i would use my skills to end it there, or to get back on my feet.
i am also not saying that one should not practice defense on the ground.......all methods or approaches to study should be used.

shawn
 

Hand Sword

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In my opinion, having been in and witnessing MANY fights, I would say it's because of simple science (oh no! I guess I'm drinking the Kempo cool aid). Consider you swing a stick with a weight at the end of it. At the end of your swing the force and the weight will take you off balance. Applying this to a fighting situation, one of the combatants is bigger or stronger. Most fights start with a brief (about a second or less) opening of a punch or two, or kick/ punch. From there the bodies collide and a clinch occurs. The force of the bigger/stronger person will overpower the smaller one, and, because of the clinch, or the instinctual grab when one begins to fall, the smaller person becomes the weight at the end of the stick, taking the bigger person off balance. They both then end up on the ground, usually with one mounted on top of the other, gripping the throat with thier weaker hand, and pummeling the face with their stronger hand.

If training, try the example out by having someone grab your lapel. Grip their arm, or simply pin the hand to your body, and just sit down, quickly--they will propel forward and down.
 

47MartialMan

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This maybe grappling arts trying to state how great or neccesary their arts are.
All arts have pros and cons and people that executed them well or foillible.
From my experinces and observations, most fights do not end on the ground.
 

MJS

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47MartialMan said:
This maybe grappling arts trying to state how great or neccesary their arts are.
All arts have pros and cons and people that executed them well or foillible.
From my experinces and observations, most fights do not end on the ground.

Actually, if someone is interested in SD, then they should be as well rounded in all aspects of fighting..including the clinch and the ground. We can't predict how a fight will turn out, therefore, its better to have the skills, to be able to know how to get back to our feet and be safe, than not have the skills and be sorry we didn't.

Mike
 

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