Do all fights end up on the ground?

Joab

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In my experience seeing and being part of a whole lot of fights in a fairly tough Junior High and High School, most, but not all fights ended up on the ground. When I bounced this question off a Wing Chun Sifu many years ago before the current ground fighting craze, he said that is what happens when you have two inexperienced fighters. he went on to say he had been in a lot of fights but he never went to the ground, and that you don't want to go to the ground because "his buddies can kick the crap out of you." This happened to me once in Junior High, a kid picked a fight with me, even throwing the first punch, and when I got him to the ground and put him in a head lock his female companion had fun kicking me over and over again. The kicks hurt, girls can kick hard, most definitely.

I would say that it is a good idea to know what to do if you end up on the ground even if it is less than desireable in a self defense scenario, but no, not all fights inevitably end up on the ground. All opinions appreciated.
 

xJOHNx

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No.

When in a fight, I just take distance when the other fellow is on the ground. I have no intention of going there for the reason you mentioned.

The ground is a good place to finish someone, but I have no intention of staying there because it leaves my defense vunerable. But A decent knowledge of ground training is a good idea, when it would happen that I'm not able to take distance.
 

chrispillertkd

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Do all fights end up on the ground? No.

The figure that the Gracies were throwing around of something like 90% of all fights ending up on the ground was, IIRC, based on law enforcement figures which are really the only reliable statistics we have on this topic. They are, however, based on altercations involving law enforcement personnel who are specifically trying to get the person prone in order to cuff them.

As was mentioned before, if you go prone in a fight and the person has a friend with him you are in for a world of hurt.

Pax,

Chris
 

Bill Mattocks

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This is a MA newbie talking, feel free to disregard.

Do all fights end up on the ground? No. And my style (isshinryu) teaches to fight standing up. We don't have a much of a ground game, strictly speaking (although our sensei teaches a variety of ground techniques, they are not 'isshinryu' per se).

However, I think it is fair to say that any fight COULD end up on the ground, no matter how much you might try to keep it standing up. Anything could happen, right?

For this reason, I am hoping to do some cross-training eventually in some form of MA that has more emphasis on ground-fighting. It doesn't hurt to be able to grapple if you need to.
 

Big Don

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I was about to say:
Only for one participant, but, that isn't true either.
 

MJS

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In my experience seeing and being part of a whole lot of fights in a fairly tough Junior High and High School, most, but not all fights ended up on the ground. When I bounced this question off a Wing Chun Sifu many years ago before the current ground fighting craze, he said that is what happens when you have two inexperienced fighters. he went on to say he had been in a lot of fights but he never went to the ground, and that you don't want to go to the ground because "his buddies can kick the crap out of you." This happened to me once in Junior High, a kid picked a fight with me, even throwing the first punch, and when I got him to the ground and put him in a head lock his female companion had fun kicking me over and over again. The kicks hurt, girls can kick hard, most definitely.

I would say that it is a good idea to know what to do if you end up on the ground even if it is less than desireable in a self defense scenario, but no, not all fights inevitably end up on the ground. All opinions appreciated.

No. The "All fights go to the ground, and 90% of them do" comments, were a result of a PD study. Yes, chances are, a cop will find most of his 'fights' on the ground, so he can cuff the badguy.

Sure, if you clinch with the guy, ie: he grabs onto you, you trip, whatever, I firmly believe that you should have an understanding of the ground. But no, me personally, I'm not intentionally going to take the guy there. If I do end up there, I'm not going to spend any more time than necessary. In other words, I'm going to do my best to get back up. I'm not going to stay there for the sake of looking for an armlock. If it presents itself, if I can get it, break the arm, etc., then sure, I'll take the gift that the guy is giving me, but I'm not going to stay there, pull him in guard, play for a few minutes, then try for that sub.

Of course, on the flip side, you have some people who think that a fight will never end up there. I find it interesting that so many people can predict the future. LOL! Personally, I dont want to assume that they won't. I'll do my best to avoid it, but I feel comfortable enough on the ground, against the average Joe, to survive, should I end up there.
 

Deaf Smith

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Hopefully for at least one side it does go to the ground.

As for 'most', are we talking 51 percent? We talking muggings? Bar room fights? Police arrest (well most of them DO go to the ground, at least to put the cuffs on them.)

Go look at such places as Youtube and view the real fights (not the fake ones or the 'fight club' kind of fights.) Many fights do, but many fights don't, at least for both participants.

And even on the ground, they don't always end up like BJJ.

Deaf
 

Xinglu

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If you are a Judoka, Jujitsuka, or Aikidoka - yes. If you are Karateka or Kenpoka - no.
 

ralphmcpherson

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I can only answer this based on fights I saw when I was younger and going out to bars , parties etc and before that when I was at school. I have never seen a fight go to the ground , Im sure some do but for me personally Ive never seen one go to the ground. Ive seen the loser land on the ground many times though.
 

corwin137

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Another perspective, is that fights tend to go (but not always) where the most skilled fighter of the two tend to be comfortable. This is overstating too.

Another interesting thing- most fights are arguably not between trained "opponents". I think a lot changes if one is trained and the other is not, or if both are.

Most relevant I think is that enough fights go to the ground (intentionally, or by accident) that training on the ground is relevant. Particularly, training to get the **** up and away ASAP. Timing and access (or dealing with) tools is also a big concern here, that is not covered by a lot of systems (styles, etc ad nauseum). Training ground stuff can also quickly disintegrate into sport "fighting". This is no es bueno for t34 d34d1y str33tz. Just my .02.
 

BLACK LION

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No...

You should train to fight in every conceivable way possible... from pissing down a urinal in a truck stop restroom to lying flat on your face soaking up some rays in the park and so on... there is no singular way a fight can start or ''end up''....
 

myusername

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If you are in a fight that ends up on the ground, in my eyes you've failed. You've not kept the distance/range of the fight where you can control it.

I would say that if that person who ended up on the ground still managed to fight off their attacker and survive then they haven't "failed". It's a bit like saying if your attacker lands a blow on you during the fight then you have "failed" because you didn't keep distance/range. A fight is a fight not a demo or tournament. I say try to stay on your feet but if you get taken down as long as you survive, knock out the attacker or escape then you have won in my eyes.
 

myusername

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No I don't think anyone can say all fights go to the ground as the definition of a fight is a broad one that needs to cover surprise ambushes/muggings right to one on one ego matches in the pub car park. With such a wide ranging potential for scenarios it isn't possible to make that claim.

I do think that it is wise to learn to fight from all ranges. That is one of the reasons I cross train in TKD and Jujutsu. I believe it to be vital for self defence to practice and know how to fight your way back to your feet. I agree that the ground is not the place you want to be in a fight/self defence situation however there is a chance you might end up there so you should know what to do.

It does amuse me when I hear the strikers claiming that they will never end up on the ground in a fight considering how many times you see TKD and karate fighters falling on the arses in sparring! Who knows what will happen in the street, you could slip or trip and it is best not feel like an upturned turtle when you have your attacker on top of you eager to inflict a beating!
 

geezer

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Who can predict where a fight will go? I got into it once with a wrestler. He was determined to take me down, I was determined to fight my best standup game. We ended up both going into the pool... in mid-winter. Water maybe 40 or 45 degrees. Anyway that one ended right there with our friends helping us out of the icy water.
 

Omar B

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I would say that if that person who ended up on the ground still managed to fight off their attacker and survive then they haven't "failed". It's a bit like saying if your attacker lands a blow on you during the fight then you have "failed" because you didn't keep distance/range. A fight is a fight not a demo or tournament. I say try to stay on your feet but if you get taken down as long as you survive, knock out the attacker or escape then you have won in my eyes.

You are entitled to think so, but as I said, In my eyes it's a failure.
 

Kwan Jang

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I love grappling and have a very well developed ground game, but I would not intentionally take the fight to the ground in a self defense situation. I am going to sprawl and if I am not successful with that, I am going to post back to my feet as quickly as possible. Both the risk from lack of mobility and the potential of enviromental damage (many grapplers often scoff at this, but ask Renzo Gracie about this) is just not worth it. Maybe if I were completely outgunned in stand up, I may consider it hoping that my opponent is one dimensional and I could take a page from a rabbit in a briar patch. Otherwise, I will leave the strategy of taking the fight to the ground for sport. Similar to high kicks, I see them as good for use in competition, but not a wise strategy for self defense.

OTOH, I believe that it is VITAL to have solid ground skills both in striking and grappling. As other posters have stated, attacks can happen anytime and anywhere and you must be prepared or at least be able to adapt to just about anything. Unless you have serious grappling skills of your own, it's very hard to keep the fight standing and if someone gets the drop on you, even then it can still happen.
 

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