How do you punch properly?

[Pier033]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
1) Which knuckle should land first?
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

 

[skribs]

For me, it depends on the punch. The default answer is the first two knuckles, but punches in which your hand is vertical (like the really fast punches you see in Wing Chun) or a really close hook punch, those I would say three knuckles is better.

If you make a fist and look at your hand, you'll notice that there's kind of a wedge shape with your middle finger knuckle being the point. Both styles of punch (2 knuckle and 3 knuckle) hit with a different side of this wedge.

The "proper" alignment is whatever keeps your wrist straight while you strike.

 

[jobo]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
1) Which knuckle should land first?
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

your over thinking this, Mr demsey may well be correct, but for most of us hitting a moving target at all is an achievements, if I'm punching with bare fists then spreading the contact out over as many knuckles as possible seems a good idea to me

 

[skribs]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
1) Which knuckle should land first?
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

1. The knuckles you strike with should land together
2. Either the first two or last three knuckles
3. Depends on the punch
4. Straight, don't bend your wrist. Your goal is to create a striking force that is straight from your elbow to your knuckles, or you're more likely to hurt your wrist than your opponent.
5. As with #2 and #3...it depends on the punch. I feel the twisting motion gives more power to the punch. Some say it's because you're making a screw motion which will penetrate deeper into the target, but I don't buy that. For me, it's simply that it engages more muscles along the way with that motion. This is the opposite of lifting weights. If someone is doing a twisting motion while doing curls, they're doing it wrong, because they're not isolating their biceps. Straight curls are a lot harder. This is why I feel the twisting motion adds more power. However, a straighter motion is generally faster, and sometimes you don't have room for a twisting motion with the punch you use.

The punches we first learn in Taekwondo are on one end of the spectrum or the other as far as twisting goes, but once we start applying the punches, they all fall somewhere in the middle as far as how much twist we apply.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

1) Which knuckle should land first?
2) Which knuckles should land?

The full surface.

 

[wab25]

A while ago I read an article where they studied the difference between vertical punches and horizontal punches (the ones with the twist) They started with untrained people, measured their punching power as ~12.56 units. They trained half with vertical punches and half with horizontal punches. The vertical punches went up to ~23.25 units, the horizontal punches went up to ~23.95 units... showing that there was a measurable difference between the two styles, horizontal being stronger. However, they also pointed out that proper training in either style effectively doubled the power of the punch. Compared with the increase in punching power over the untrained punch, the difference between the two styles was trivial at best. I will try to find that article, its been a few years... and the above numbers are my best recollections. But, they are in the ballpark. Training did nearly double the power... the difference in power between the styles was less than 1, but measurable for the horizontal punch.

The "proper" alignment is whatever keeps your wrist straight while you strike.

Keeping your own alignment to protect your wrist and deliver power is most important. When in class doing kata, I do what is taught for that style. When I punch though, I use the first two knuckles with my left, and the bottom three with my right. This is because I broke my right elbow as a kid and do not have full extension with my right arm. I get better alignment for my right hand, using the bottom three knuckles.

 

[skribs]

Keeping your own alignment to protect your wrist and deliver power is most important. When in class doing kata, I do what is taught for that style. When I punch though, I use the first two knuckles with my left, and the bottom three with my right. This is because I broke my right elbow as a kid and do not have full extension with my right arm. I get better alignment for my right hand, using the bottom three knuckles.

Out of curiosity, do you always use the same lead hand or do you switch back and forth which is your lead side?

 

[wab25]

Out of curiosity, do you always use the same lead hand or do you switch back and forth which is your lead side?

I switch sides depending on what I want to do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A while ago I read an article where they studied the difference between vertical punches and horizontal punches (the ones with the twist) They started with untrained people, measured their punching power as ~12.56 units. They trained half with vertical punches and half with horizontal punches. The vertical punches went up to ~23.25 units, the horizontal punches went up to ~23.95 units... showing that there was a measurable difference between the two styles, horizontal being stronger. However, they also pointed out that proper training in either style effectively doubled the power of the punch. Compared with the increase in punching power over the untrained punch, the difference between the two styles was trivial at best. I will try to find that article, its been a few years... and the above numbers are my best recollections. But, they are in the ballpark. Training did nearly double the power... the difference in power between the styles was less than 1, but measurable for the horizontal punch.

That jives with my own experience. I (and folks I've tossed the idea around with) hit harder, more consistently with a horizontal punch. But not by a lot. And the closer the target, the more it favors the vertical punch, so it seems there is some range where the vertical punch outpowers the horizontal punch.

 

[oftheherd1]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
1) Which knuckle should land first?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

I think many variations on a punch can be made to work. I don't mean a variation that puts the hand or wrist in danger of damage. And before you ask, training and practice will separate those that cause damage from those that don't; hopefully before serious damage occurs.

So, first train/use the method taught by your instructors. If it isn't working for you search out why. Talk to your instructors about why so they can observe more closely to correct you to do it like your style teaches, in such a way you will deliver more and more powerful punches without injury. Somewhere after you 1st Dan, you can talk to your seniors again to see what you are doing wrong, or seek the agreement of the chief instructor/owner to experiment with a way that works better for your particular body or brain.

When I studied TKD, we were taught a straight wrist and hitting with the first two knuckles, with the metacarpals lined up with the wrist/arm bones, making it straight. Vertically the metacarpals and arm would be in a straight line. The hand would be horizontal when or just before it struck its target. Hips and shoulders should be straight. That gave us a solid line of bone from the ground to the point of the strike. The thumb btw, would be bent and tucked under the first three fingers. We believed that got it out of the way of injury as well as giving us a stronger fist. See the above photo of @Kung Fu Wang. It seems the same but seen from the bottom. We were aware of other ways of doing things, but we accepted that ours was a better way. I am sure those who do it differently can give reasons they think theirs is superior.

So, what have I taught you? There are different ways and many probably have their usefulness if learned and used as taught.

You have to do it as your style/school teaches or seek out another style/school. But except in most unusual circumstances, I don't think that is the first best option.

EDIT: I meant to say something about twisting the wrist. I think you mean twisting the forearm keeping the wrist in line. Twisting is not one of the many moves the wrist has, at least more than a few mm and some of that comes from the forearm bones.

 

[PhotonGuy]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
1) Which knuckle should land first?
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

It all depends on the style and the type of punch. In many classical karate styles you're taught to punch with the index and middle knuckle and that they should land together. In boxing, their punches are thrown differently so you would hit with different knuckles depending on the punch. In Wing Chun, you're taught to punch with the middle, ring, and pinkly knuckles. It all depends on the style and the punch.

As for the reverse punch that I throw in the classical karate styles I train in, Miyagi had the right idea, you put the power of your whole body into one inch, the inch of the index and middle knuckles.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It all depends on the style and the type of punch. In many classical karate styles you're taught to punch with the index and middle knuckle and that they should land together. In boxing, their punches are thrown differently so you would hit with different knuckles depending on the punch. In Wing Chun, you're taught to punch with the middle, ring, and pinkly knuckles. It all depends on the style and the punch.

If you have cross trained Karate, boxing, and WC, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you punch?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you have cross trained Karate, boxing, and WC, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you punch?

With whichever feels most natural for any given punch.

 

[wab25]

If you have cross trained Karate, boxing, and WC, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you punch?

If you have only trained Karate, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you kick? Top of the foot? Edge of the foot? The ball of the foot? The heel of the foot?

Your distance and relationship to the target, along with your intent, should determine which part of the foot or hand to use. Nothing wrong with having options... the more the merrier.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you have only trained Karate, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you kick? Top of the foot? Edge of the foot? The ball of the foot? The heel of the foot?

Your distance and relationship to the target, along with your intent, should determine which part of the foot or hand to use. Nothing wrong with having options... the more the merrier.

If you kick with the

- top of the foot, that's "spring".
- edge of the foot, that's "side kick (or reverse side kick)".
- ball of the foot, that's "toes push kick".
- heel of the foot, that's "heel kick".

As far as I know, the straight punch doesn't go down to that level of detail.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

With whichever feels most natural for any given punch.

That's my point. There is no

- Karate way of punch,
- boxing way of punch,
- WC way of punch.

There is only your way of punch.

Can you train

- Karate punch on Monday,
- Boxing punch on Tuesday,
- WC punch on Wednesday,
- ...?

It will be very difficult.

Do you train roundhouse kick the

- MT way, or
- TKD way?

Or do you train it both ways?

 

[JR 137]

I use the index and middle knuckles. Or at least I try to. Every actual punch I’ve thrown against someone, sparring or for real, I’ve never thought about which knuckles should land. In actual fighting, the only thing I’ve tried to do was punch a hole in my opponent.

IMO the proper way is first 2 knuckles. Why? The first two metacarpals are stronger than the last two. I’ve seen many fractures of the 5th metacarpal, and not as many but certainly enough fractures of the 4th. All from punching, either fighting, punching stuff like walls, or in sports. Non-punching sports. Stuff Luke a football player breaking through a block by “punching through” where it’s an uppercut punching motion, but he ended up inadvertently punching a helmet or the like.

I’ve never seen fractures of the 2nd and 3rd metacarpals (index and middle finger knuckles) from punching. Not impossible at all, but I’ve never seen it.

18 years of sports medicine and about 10 years of MA. And plenty of personal and friends’ fights and punching stuff I and they shouldn’t have punched.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If you have cross trained Karate, boxing, and WC, when you stand in front of your heavy bag, how will you punch?

Depends on what kind of drill Im doing.

 

[Bruce7]

In the book "Championship Fighting: Explosive punching and Aggressive Defense" Jack Dempsey reccomends to punch with the last three knuckles of the hand (the pinky, the second and the middle), and to aim with the second. Some people recommend punching with the index and the middle. Some reccomend 3 knuckle landings, others 4 knuckles landing, others 2 knuckle landing. So...
1) Which knuckle should land first?
2)Which knuckles should land?
3)Is Dempsey right about powerline punching?
4) What's the wrist's position while punching?
5)Some people say that you should twist your wrist while punching or something like that: what does it mean? Is it true?

The wrist does not twist, the arm turns for reverse punch or over hand cross.
The arm does not turn with snap punch or jab.
Books help after training.
Find a good boxing coach first, if you want to learn how to punch
or a good hand technique MA teacher.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's my point. There is no

- Karate way of punch,
- boxing way of punch,
- WC way of punch.

There is only your way of punch.

Can you train

- Karate punch on Monday,
- Boxing punch on Tuesday,
- WC punch on Wednesday,
- ...?

It will be very difficult.

Do you train roundhouse kick the

- MT way, or
- TKD way?

Or do you train it both ways?

I routinely train three different straight punches, two different round kicks from the back leg, and two straight front kicks. Sometimes I choose to train just one option. Sometimes I train a range of them. Sometimes I just let happen whichever flows.