How do you fight with an axe?

[_Simon_]

Well I ain't tellin' you that'll give you the advantage!

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Well I ain't tellin' you that'll give you the advantage!

the, uh, edge?

 

[_Simon_]

the, uh, edge?

Ahhh dagnabbit.. missed opportunity! Well played sir, well played

 

[drop bear]

I was watching a mock axe fight today.

 

[HighKick]

I think this is the most serious candidate, it has a nice long haft like you said

That is a wood splitting maul. It can do serious damage but would be very slow.
Better make that first swing count.

 

[HighKick]

This was where my mind went. I know a few people that have adapted kali for small hatchets.

That said, why not just do what FMA does, get yourself a good rattan stick and do sword drills with that? Won't work for a heavy sword but it'd be better than nothing for a light one.

A lot of FMA style, particularly Kali trains opposite of what you may think. We started with the knife, then stick, and lastly open-handed. Teaches you a great deal of control.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

A lot of FMA style, particularly Kali trains opposite of what you may think. We started with the knife, then stick, and lastly open-handed. Teaches you a great deal of control.

Ive been training kali for almost a decade with a couple different teachers lol. Started that same way (but personal experience is 50/50 on if they stay with stick or knife). But op is just looking for something he can use his sword drills for

 

[Dirty Dog]

So, in fencing, you have foil( thrust only ), epee (thrust only), or Sabre ( cut only). The design of most dictate the use. My point ( see what I did there) is that they aren’t all good at everything. Same as why I have 4 different kitchen knives. But I agree with you that versatility is most important. If I have to pick one that covers most bases I pick the paring knife because it’s easy to control and conceal in my hand. In a pinch, anything can work. I might have a hard time thrusting my cleaver, but I bet I could make it work somehow.

I do not believe the foil is based on an actual weapon. It's super light and super flexy to minimize risk when training. If anything, it's based on the small sword, which was essentially a decoration.

I think this is the most serious candidate, it has a nice long haft like you said

I think that would hurt. A lot. But you have to hit them. And a weapon that heavy, with all the weight at the end, is going to be monstrously slow. If I am ever attacked with an axe, I hope it's that one.

As someone else said, I'd lean more towards a hatchet or tomahawk. Preferably two of them. It's generally a mistake to limit your attacks to a single side.
My experience with HEMA is a lot of years fighting with rapier. Axe always felt off for me. But give me a rapier and dagger, or two rapiers... super effective.

 

[Flying Crane]

From the experimenting I did crossing Chinese butterfly knives to double tomahawk, the balance is very different. All the weight of the tomahawk is in the head at the end of that stick, roughly 20 inches long. It isn’t like a sword with a pommel that can act as a counterweight, and a long blade that distributes the weight gradually. So there is some raw strength needed to control the weapon. Unless you are quite strong, I would suggest not more than a pound and a half for the tomahawk head, and less might be better. Even a fairly light head would concentrate a lot of splitting power into that whipping chop once you get it figured out. And it isn’t just the chopping and cutting moves. The distal point of the blade can be used to thrust as well, something that I think can be overlooked. The blade can also be used to hook things like an enemy’s shield or weapon, to pull it aside for an attack with the other hawk in the other hand.

If you take that same hawk head, or one only a little heavier, and mount it on a 30 inch or 45 inch shaft, you are getting into the realm of a long(er) axe, requiring two hands but giving more reach. That longer reach comes at the price of putting the weight farther out on the shaft, making it a slower weapon that requires both hands, at least for most people. That is why I suggest the blade should not be much heavier than a single-handed tomahawk so that it maintains maneuverability and speed. Seriously, a 6 pound or 8 pound splitting maul would be very difficult to fight with. I was in a hardware store and overheard a couple looking at axes. The guy picked up a heavy woodcutting axe and made a comment to his partner about needing it for the zombie apocalypse. It was all I could do to refrain from walking over and explaining that a hand hatchet was a much better choice. That wood axe would have worn him out quickly trying to cut his way through a zombie hoard and he would have been a meat lunch for Zed.

Another weapon combo that I like the idea of is tomahawk matched with a long knife, something around an 8-12 inch blade. Perhaps a kukri would be a good match, it still has chopping capability but with better stabbing options than the hawk, depending on the specific kukri design. Some have a more slender profile than others.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I do not believe the foil is based on an actual weapon. It's super light and super flexy to minimize risk when training.

Don't know about the evolution of the foil, but was the weapon carried by gentlemen associated with the royal court. It was commonly used for dueling, as leaving a small puncture wound wouldn't bleed all over the fancy clothes/floors - or so the story goes. With a button on the end, it was easy and safe to practice for dueling when one's honor was at stake and its transition to a rather formal sport was natural. Finesse, tactics and speed are the dominant skills with power and strength being unneeded due to the nature of the weapon.

 

[Same Trick]

I like a sturdy meat cleaver, I use it when practice my Xingyidao(sabre) form at home, it lack the length but that’s good when I practice in the house, minimize risk of hitting and cutting furnitures and stuff. The cleaver gives a good authentic feel to the practice since beside for my form practice I use it for its purpose of cutting flesh and bones…..in the kitchen.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Don't know about the evolution of the foil, but was the weapon carried by gentlemen associated with the royal court. It was commonly used for dueling, as leaving a small puncture wound wouldn't bleed all over the fancy clothes/floors - or so the story goes. With a button on the end, it was easy and safe to practice for dueling when one's honor was at stake and its transition to a rather formal sport was natural. Finesse, tactics and speed are the dominant skills with power and strength being unneeded due to the nature of the weapon.

This is mostly correct, but it's describing a smallsword. The foil was a training tool, nothing more. Smallsword blades are, of necessity, quite stiff and typically have a diamond cross section.
As far as the bleeding story goes... stab wounds have a much higher mortality rate than cuts. If you check timelines, you'll note that dueling was banned almost immediately after rapiers became popular. Because duels with cutting swords were messy, but duels with point weapons were deadly.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I do not believe the foil is based on an actual weapon. It's super light and super flexy to minimize risk when training. If anything, it's based on the small sword, which was essentially a decoration.

I think that would hurt. A lot. But you have to hit them. And a weapon that heavy, with all the weight at the end, is going to be monstrously slow. If I am ever attacked with an axe, I hope it's that one.

As someone else said, I'd lean more towards a hatchet or tomahawk. Preferably two of them. It's generally a mistake to limit your attacks to a single side.
My experience with HEMA is a lot of years fighting with rapier. Axe always felt off for me. But give me a rapier and dagger, or two rapiers... super effective.

How did I get in this thread? I don’t know much of anything about this. Isn’t foil to teach use of rapiers? Or is that epee?

This is mostly correct, but it's describing a smallsword. The foil was a training tool, nothing more. Smallsword blades are, of necessity, quite stiff and typically have a diamond cross section.
As far as the bleeding story goes... stab wounds have a much higher mortality rate than cuts. If you check timelines, you'll note that dueling was banned almost immediately after rapiers became popular. Because duels with cutting swords were messy, but duels with point weapons were deadly.

quite a few German officers bore dueling scars in ww2. Certain units had quite a few with slashed faces and missing eyes.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Mensur fencing.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Here.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How did I get in this thread? I don’t know much of anything about this. Isn’t foil to teach use of rapiers? Or is that epee?

That's epee. Compared to smallswords, rapiers are longer, may have sharpened edges (useful for draw cuts, but not chopping or slashing. Overall length was actually limited by sumptuary laws in many places. The epee is close, especially the heavier ones. The schlager is even closer, but is not used in Olympic-style fencing. I've made a few rapiers. When I was doing HEMA stuff, the schlager was my preferred weapon. Better yet, two. Or one and a dagger.

quite a few German officers bore dueling scars in ww2. Certain units had quite a few with slashed faces and missing eyes.

Macho stupidity is not a new thing. Dueling was illegal but that was apparently not really enforced. From what I've read, it was a status symbol to have a Heidelberg scar, since only the upper class could get away with it.