How do you fight with an axe?

[Prince_Alarming]

Just a thought. I can't afford a proper sword, but what I do have at my disposal is a lot of axes. So... how do you fight with one? Are there any martial arts that use axes as part of their repetoire? What drills would you recommend? Any suggestions gratefully recieved

 

[Dirty Dog]

HEMA groups would be your best bet. But start by looking at the axe. A woodsman axe is not ideal for fighting, but something is generally better than nothing.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Oh, I've got all sorts of axes, from side axes (for green woodcraft) through splitting mauls to plain old hatchets. I'm sure I can find something that's suitable

 

[Dirty Dog]

Oh, I've got all sorts of axes, from side axes (for green woodcraft) through splitting mauls to plain old hatchets. I'm sure I can find something that's suitable

Post some pics. I doubt that any wood axe is ever going to be as useful as an actual battle axe. Form follows function. you'll need a longer haft for one thing. And a lighter head.
But as I said, anything is generally better than nothing.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I think this is the most serious candidate, it has a nice long haft like you said

 

[wab25]

I doubt that any wood axe is ever going to be as useful as an actual battle axe. Form follows function. you'll need a longer haft for one thing. And a lighter head.

Silly question.... What if he went the other way.... got a small light hatchet and looked at tomahawk techniques? To my untrained mind, that might be a closer fit....?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Silly question.... What if he went the other way.... got a small light hatchet and looked at tomahawk techniques? To my untrained mind, that might be a closer fit....?

This was where my mind went. I know a few people that have adapted kali for small hatchets.

That said, why not just do what FMA does, get yourself a good rattan stick and do sword drills with that? Won't work for a heavy sword but it'd be better than nothing for a light one.

 

[Flying Crane]

At my Sifu’s suggestion I have adapted some Chinese butterfly knife material to double tomahawks. It was experimental but seemed functional.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think this is the most serious candidate, it has a nice long haft like you said

How much does it weigh? A heavy axe is not good for fighting. Not maneuverable enough. A wood cutting axe is heavy for the purpose, but mostly useful for up-and-down cutting, and horizontal. But it is regular and methodical. Not maneuverable enough for the changes and chaos of combat. Need a lighter axe for that.

Those monstrous battle axes carried by the dwarves in the Tolkien movies were entirely unrealistic. Huge blades like that must weigh 80 pounds. Impossible to use.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

HEMA groups would be your best bet.

I'm not aware of any primary historical sources for European axe-fighting. If any exist, I doubt they are particularly extensive. There are recreation groups trying to reconstruct appropriate methods. (Viking groups and the like.) But in the absence of written sources or continuous tradition, I think it's mostly experimental archeology.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

That's cool, I like experimental archeology

 

[Flying Crane]

Contact these guys: Grimfrost Webshop - Viking Products from Sweden

They sell all kinds of Viking themed merchandise, including weapons like swords, long axes, seaxes, hauburks, etc. If you are interested in Nordic long axe methods, I would not be surprised if they know someone.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Cool! Thanks. As an anglo saxon, it's kind of my ancestral weapon

 

[drop bear]

That's cool, I like experimental archeology

It isn't the worst thing in the world. As you are not trying to be historically accurate. You just want to hit someone with it.

So as an example of what you might find. Here is a HEMA guy. Kind of making it up as he goes. With an axe that is very different to your choice.

I have a forestry axe that is probably more similar to HEMA guys. That can be bought in a modern world and used as a bushcraft axe.

There are specific fighting axes you can buy. But I would be cautious of the quality.

Sthil forestry axe.

And don't discount just good axe use.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm not aware of any primary historical sources for European axe-fighting. If any exist, I doubt they are particularly extensive. There are recreation groups trying to reconstruct appropriate methods. (Viking groups and the like.) But in the absence of written sources or continuous tradition, I think it's mostly experimental archeology.

I am not either. But there are certainly efforts to recreate what might have been done, and that's a good place to start. Plenty of HEMA groups pressure test their research in live, full contact fighting.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Just thinking about the mechanics of axe fighting (in which I have no experience) it seems like a rather cumbersome thing, being so heavy and slow. I would think it would be wielded in a large arcing motion to give it momentum. Subtle techniques would not be its strongpoint. A berserker's weapon in the Viking tradition perhaps. Not practical IMO as a weapons discipline.

Now a small hatchet-type, or a pair of them (like kama, sickles) can definitely be useful. Some Native American tribes used them, and I've seen photos of SEALs carrying them. Additionally, I've read that in the European Middle Ages light infantry would carry them (some with a spike on the other end) to finish off downed knights, penetrating into the armor joints - a slow and painful way for a noble knight to meet his demise.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Just thinking about the mechanics of axe fighting (in which I have no experience) it seems like a rather cumbersome thing, being so heavy and slow. I would think it would be wielded in a large arcing motion to give it momentum. Subtle techniques would not be its strongpoint. A berserker's weapon in the Viking tradition perhaps. Not practical IMO as a weapons discipline.

Now a small hatchet-type, or a pair of them (like kama, sickles) can definitely be useful. Some Native American tribes used them, and I've seen photos of SEALs carrying them. Additionally, I've read that in the European Middle Ages light infantry would carry them (some with a spike on the other end) to finish off downed knights, penetrating into the armor joints - a slow and painful way for a noble knight to meet his demise.

Actual fighting axes, such as the Dane axe, were not particularly heavy or slow or lacking in subtle techniques. The balance and handling were not like that of a wood axe or fantasy dwarven battle axes.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Just a thought. I can't afford a proper sword, but what I do have at my disposal is a lot of axes. So... how do you fight with one? Are there any martial arts that use axes as part of their repetoire? What drills would you recommend? Any suggestions gratefully recieved

This may seem counter intuitive, yet Axes are like impact weapons for body work and footwork, not like Swords.

With an edge one transitions weight from side to side as the blade crosses the center line. This allows for the edge to do its work.

Even though the axe has an edge, it works like an impact. Or Chopping Weapon.
If the axe starts on your right side then your weight should be biased to the right side.

How much? 70/ 30 or .. ?

It depends upon trying to reach your target and distancing. Think greater than 50% and let the body react.

Keep your ankles, knees and hips bent. This helps one to rotate and lean and adjust for distancing.

As many AXEs are two handed to the average person The above principals will apply one or two handed.

I would suggest getting one you can use only one handed.

.

If one handed then that handle should be about 90 degrees from your wrist / forearm.
If it is two handed then think the higher up hand should be in this manner.

This will help with practicing and not over extending ones joints.
It really helps as it forces one to use their body execute the strike / chop.

It will also avoid the appearance of the Harry Potter Wand motions that others will not take you serious.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm not aware of any primary historical sources for European axe-fighting. If any exist, I doubt they are particularly extensive. There are recreation groups trying to reconstruct appropriate methods. (Viking groups and the like.) But in the absence of written sources or continuous tradition, I think it's mostly experimental archeology.

I am not either. But there are certainly efforts to recreate what might have been done, and that's a good place to start. Plenty of HEMA groups pressure test their research in live, full contact fighting.

Medieval Combat - A fifteenth-Century Manual of Sword-fighting and Close-Quarter Combat
Hans Talhoffer Translated and edited by Mark Rector
Barnes & Noble
Pole-Axe Plates 79 -103

While not an Axe directly it is the only reference I have to axe like fighting.

 

[Flying Crane]

Go on Amazon.com and search in the books for “tomahawk fighting” and several options come up. I do not advocate learning a new martial method from a book, but it might be informative and educational.