How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?

[zDom]

... I was permitted to fight them full contact, they did not hesitate to say OK. I could do anything I wanted, nothing was prearranged and it was an enlightening experience.

And how would this work with hapkido?

Surely we don't want to return to "challenge matches" where a prospective student goes from dojang to dojang engaging the master instructor in dire combat to test his effectiveness, do we?

I mean, it DOES work great for TKD. When I put on the mitts with my TKD instructor, I quickly came to an understanding that what he had was worth learning.


But then, I'm not sure I would have wanted to go at my HKD instructor with "anything I wanted, nothing ... prearranged" -- for my own safety.

From prearranged formal technique I think I rightly assessed his techniques' effectiveness.

And I'm pretty sure even then, and without doubt now, even in complying to prearranged technique, I would be able to tell an effective technique from an ineffective technique.

But then, it seem very many are not able to tell.

 

[mastercole]

And how would this work with hapkido?

Surely we don't want to return to "challenge matches" where a prospective student goes from dojang to dojang engaging the master instructor in dire combat to test his effectiveness, do we?

I mean, it DOES work great for TKD. When I put on the mitts with my TKD instructor, I quickly came to an understanding that what he had was worth learning.


But then, I'm not sure I would have wanted to go at my HKD instructor with "anything I wanted, nothing ... prearranged" -- for my own safety.

From prearranged formal technique I think I rightly assessed his techniques' effectiveness.

And I'm pretty sure even then, and without doubt now, even in complying to prearranged technique, I would be able to tell an effective technique from an ineffective technique.

But then, it seem very many are not able to tell.

I was not suggesting that it would work for Hapkido.

 

[zDom]

I was not suggesting that it would work for Hapkido.

No no — I didn't think you were and I didn't mean to imply that you did. i Was just posing the questions myself for discussion and thinking out loud in text.

 

[puunui]

Surely we don't want to return to "challenge matches" where a prospective student goes from dojang to dojang engaging the master instructor in dire combat to test his effectiveness, do we?

I had a student like that, a half korean half american guy who got his Hapkido 1st dan in korea under the Saemaul Hapkido Central Headquarters before moving here. He went to every hapkido dojang on the island and basically challenged every instructor, and leaving in disgust. He tried to do that with me, and ended up staying with me for a very long time. This was early on when I first came back and my early students all looked up to him as their big senior, which made him happy. He was also into muay thai, so we gave him our special kicks to the leg and he really went off on those which became his specialty. He got up to 3rd Dan under me, before he got a job on an alaskan king crab boat. His korean mother is very nice and I used to take stuff to her tailor shop to have things altered until she finally retired. His mother liked me a lot because she felt that I was the only one who could "control" her son, which was funny because I basically let him do whatever he wanted.

 

[milewski]

After reviewing the thread and the answers from the person that started it, he as an experienced martial artist should be able to answer his own question. The best Hapkidoist is the one that he decides can teach him the best, just like TKD, Jujitsu, karate, judo, or any other MA.

 

[American HKD]

Greetings,

There is no best, but some people are considered the best in their system.

GM Ji Han Jae is considered the best in his lineage or style, he has taught many people who are influential in spreading Hapkido and many seek his ranking believing it is from one of the best sources.

Myung Jae Nam is also considered the best in the style he developed that he blended with Aikido.

Etc...

Another question is who are the best practitioners in any given style, that is really not answerable either. Some people are better at hand skills, some kicking, etc...

All anyone can do is work to be the best you can be based on your own personal goals. That is what martial arts teaches, be the best you can be.

 

[rickster]

I understand you desire to have a good teacher, but do you want the best in all the world, the best as described by someone else, or the best for you?

I agree. Saying something is the "best", is subjected to preference

 

[rickster]

Why would I have to drop everything? I don't have restrictions, I don't have to ask permission, I don't have to set terms, I simple got after what I want and I have always got what I want, plus more. My full time career has been martial arts since 1992, it is my job. I have dojangs that do not require me to even be there, at anytime, for any reason. I can fly off to anywhere in the world I decide, at any time for however long I decide.

Years ago I got interested in Taekkyon, so I went back and forth to Korea to train and brought the world's top level Taekkyon teacher along with the National Taekkyon Demo Team to the USA to introduce Taekkyon to my students, then brought his top master back to the USA to live at my home and teach me and my students, he has been living here now for the past 10 years and is sitting in my living room watching a movie with my sons right now. I've done similar things like that for Taekwondo. I would approach Hapkido not differently.

That is why I search for opinions on the Hapkido board. Are you a Hapkido practitioner? If so, what is your opinion? If not, oh well.

If you can do all of these things, why waste so much time and so many posts here?

Get on a jet and go to Korea, seek out the heads of Hapkido orgs.

Then you can bring one of their top masters to the USA and have them sit in the living next to the top TKD in your living room, and you all can watch a movie together

This is a reflecton^^^ upon a post that I think could have not been in the thread.

That said, I would think a person interested in a specific martial art should seek out a specific forum and its members from that particular org.

In other words, I would check out and research Hapkido webs and orgs rather a general martial art forum of many styles.

To reiterate, if I had "unlimited" time and resources to dispose, I would not be here posting.

Although, I do have some time in-between a job, family, practice, and teaching to post here.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?

Is there some kind of test of skills, in a non-prearranged format against other opposing Hapkidoin?

Thank you

I'd like to preface my answer by saying that I know that Master Cole is not actively posting at the present time and may or may not see continued responses to his thread.

Also, I don't consider myself to be an Hapkido expert by any measure.

Having said that...

Firstly, there is nothing resembling a global hapkido champion. The art simply is not set up that way. Some federations have competitions, but I am not aware of them being structured the way that taekwondo is, with a competition season that culminates in local, state, regional, national, and international championships.

I suspect that at the highest levels, people know who is whom and those who are the best are known to those who are connected enough to track such things.

Secondly, 'best' could also mean preeminence in the field. GM Ji, for example, is preeminent in the field, but would not actively compete at his age.

One of the things about 'best' is that one may be 'best' in terms of knowledge, ability to transmit knowledge, and ability to apply their skills in a broad range of scenarios, but they may not have the physical capacity due to age to excel in competition.

Conversely, many of the things that make one a prime competitor are dependent upon youth, when one usually is not at their peak with regards to knowledge, ability to transmit knowledge, and ability to apply their skills in a broad range of scenarios.

Top competitors tend to train for competition, which narrows their focus. Competition training requires a level of intensity that usually preclude people of middle age or old age from competing at the top levels. The best of both worlds would be the champion who continues to develop and grow past their competition years and who then further enriches the art.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Not speaking for Al Cole, but I don't believe he was necessarily asking from the perspective of competition based upon comments he made in one of the very similar threads he began, though competition may have been part of it;

Who in the Hapkido world, a top level teacher type, is known to have extensive experience in real world civilian self defense / street combat, whatever the correct name is, and has the reputation of teaching those real world experiences to their students who are also known to have went on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense.

Only one person responding met this criteria.

 

[musashi036]

I agree with Mr. Sullivan. That was very well put. The video clip that was posted of the Pro Hapkido Tournament on page 2 was actually won by one of the black belts in my association and another former student of mine was also featured in the video.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Not speaking for Al Cole, but I don't believe he was necessarily asking from the perspective of competition based upon comments he made in one of the very similar threads he began, though competition may have been part of it;

Who in the Hapkido world, a top level teacher type, is known to have extensive experience in real world civilian self defense / street combat, whatever the correct name is, and has the reputation of teaching those real world experiences to their students who are also known to have went on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense.

Only one person responding met this criteria.

If you're talking about this thread, plenty of people have met the criteria of the OP. The questions posed in the OP and in what you quoted are entirely different: one is asking who in the hapkido world have also gone on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense while the other is asking what method is used to determine the the most skilled practitioner:

How do we know who the best Hapkidoin are?

Is there some kind of test of skills, in a non-prearranged format against other opposing Hapkidoin?

Thank you

In your quote, Mastercole is asking about who in the hapkido world have gone on to apply their art in some fashion, presumably in some kind of professional capacity, in civilian self defense. Which is an interesting question; GM Peligrinni might be a possible answer, assuming that he meets the other criteria mentioned in the quote and whether or not one considers him to be 'hapkido.' The other factor is what is meant by "went on to use those skills in real world civilian self defense." It could refer generally to having defended themselves in the real civilian world or it could mean working in a profession that is centered around real world civilian self defense.

In this thread, Mastercole is asking about a process.

The answer to this this question, "How do you know who is the best hapkidoin?" is that there is no process; hapkido is not organized in a way that would allow for that. Not at this point in time anyway.

Also, as has been stated, best is a relative term.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

If you're talking about this thread...

I'm tying in the overall theme of the several threads he began on essentially the same topic. The trend of this thread was towards competition as an indicator of 'best'. Such as your quote;

Firstly, there is nothing resembling a global hapkido champion. The art simply is not set up that way. Some federations have competitions, but I am not aware of them being structured the way that taekwondo is, with a competition season that culminates in local, state, regional, national, and international championships.

Since competition isn't the best indicator of 'best', and since he had listed criteria as to what he was generally looking for in Hapkido instruction I listed his criteria. I don't remember anyone else, meeting his listed criteria offering to instruct him other than just one. But it does indicate, at least from his perspective, of what he considered to at least be a part of the equation into what is 'best'. And I don't often agree with Al, but in this instance I have to give credit where it is due...it was a good list of criteria. Certainly better than from a competition perspective, if there was a 'global' competition from which to draw criteria. As you mention, there really isn't. So this falls back upon his listed criteria as part of the overall equation within these many threads.