How do I breathe duing forms - Chil-Sung E Ro-Hyung

[Lynne]

I suspect that breathing during forms is extremely important. Occasionally, I hear the black belts breathing and making hissing sounds.

I'm doing Chil-Sung E Ro-Hyung for an October competition and I can tell you right now that I need breathing tips.

Going "down" (coming back) the I, we go into a low side stance, do an energy scoop, turn into a front stance, do an energy press, and then do a front kick. We do this three times except on the last front kick, we aim and do a punch as the front kick drops.

I cannot inhale the entire time when I'm scooping or I will pass out. I simply can't hold my breath that long. So, I have to wait a bit before I inhale. So, then I exhale with the energy press but I need more air to explode into a front kick. I suppose we are supposed to explode into that front kick?

Any general or specific tips on breathing would be much appreciated. At my level, we certainly do the kihaps at the ends of the "I" and with the last punch of the form. We also have done hissing once during group forms to keep time, but only once.

I probably won't get any more instruction on this from unless I go to special help classes so any input would be very much appreciated!

 

[AdamR]

We don't practise the Chil Sungs any more, so I couldn't say specifically, and my own breathing isn't that great during the forms I perform (great start to a reply eh?), but at the very least remember to breathe When you're 'scooping' make a slow controlled breath, and try breathing in through your nose if you aren't already. It'll slow the rate the air comes in at and may stop you filling up so quickly, and pull the breath from the bottom of your gut.

The noises you hear are almost certainly shinchook (tension & relaxation - one of your 8 key concepts if you use them) breathing, and having attempted it in lessons where it was being taught, I know first-hand how difficult it is to do properly, as it's not just making a noise with your mouth, it's a big exhalation right from your diaphragm.

It's surprising how easy it is to not breathe I find . The number of times I've done the last six moves of Pyung Ahn Ee Dan in two breaths is ridiculous

 

[Lynne]

We don't practise the Chil Sungs any more, so I couldn't say specifically, and my own breathing isn't that great during the forms I perform (great start to a reply eh?), but at the very least remember to breathe When you're 'scooping' make a slow controlled breath, and try breathing in through your nose if you aren't already. It'll slow the rate the air comes in at and may stop you filling up so quickly, and pull the breath from the bottom of your gut.

The noises you hear are almost certainly shinchook (tension & relaxation - one of your 8 key concepts if you use them) breathing, and having attempted it in lessons where it was being taught, I know first-hand how difficult it is to do properly, as it's not just making a noise with your mouth, it's a big exhalation right from your diaphragm.

It's surprising how easy it is to not breathe I find . The number of times I've done the last six moves of Pyung Ahn Ee Dan in two breaths is ridiculous

Hey Adam,

Thanks for the response . I'm just 8th gup, but we do employ the 8 key concepts. At my level, we haven't touched on them too much yet. We are focusing on the five elements though.

So, a big exhalation from my diaphragm? I'll try to stay focused on breathing in through my nose. Gee, I don't even know what I was trying to do! I will focus on my breathing today as I practice my Chil-Sung form. Yesterday, I was focusing on getting through the form without stumbling or stopping.

I think the harder the form is, like the Chil-Sung, the more we are tempted to hold our breath. I just learned Pyong Ahn Cho Dan and I kept holding my breath during the Hadon Sudo Makees because I was concentrating so hard on preparing my hands at my hips or whatever my mind was trying to do.

I hear Pyong Ahn E Dan is much more difficult than the Chil-Sung form I'm learning. I commend you for getting through it in two breaths!

 

[MBuzzy]

Lynne,

A few things to think about...

1) You should exhale for EVERY MOVE. Never hold your breath. This is a fundamental principle of Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do. Now, some movements are reversed, where the inhalation and exhalation are reversed, but any time that you are expelling energy, you should be exhaling or Kihaping. The breathing reinforces your power.

2) Every form has a rhythm. Some schools use different rhythms than others, so I can't speak for your school. For example, at my school, the first few moves of the Kichos go 1,2 pause 1,2 pause, 1,2 pause 1,2 kihap, etc. Now the Chil Sungs have slightly different rhythms since they have the huge contrast between hard and soft, fast and slow. So learn your rhythm and that will give you some insight into the breathing.

3) In Chil Sung Forms, there are slow movements and fast movements...in MOST CASES, the slow movements begin with inhalation. In Ee Lo, when you come back south (doing the front kicks), as you position your hands prior to the kick, slowly inhale. As you kick, exhale.

4) Always breath through your diaphragm. If your shoulders are moving, you are breathing improperly. Breath should come in and THROUGH your lungs, down to your diaphragm and forced out with that muscle. Even on harder exhalations. Shoulders should always stay level.

Hopefully these help - as I'm sure you've noticed, you can practice for years and still continue to learn things about the forms....you CANNOT master every aspect in a few weeks, it simply isn't possible. There's just too much there.

 

[Lynne]

Lynne,

A few things to think about...

1) You should exhale for EVERY MOVE. Never hold your breath. This is a fundamental principle of Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do. Now, some movements are reversed, where the inhalation and exhalation are reversed, but any time that you are expelling energy, you should be exhaling or Kihaping. The breathing reinforces your power.

2) Every form has a rhythm. Some schools use different rhythms than others, so I can't speak for your school. For example, at my school, the first few moves of the Kichos go 1,2 pause 1,2 pause, 1,2 pause 1,2 kihap, etc. Now the Chil Sungs have slightly different rhythms since they have the huge contrast between hard and soft, fast and slow. So learn your rhythm and that will give you some insight into the breathing.

3) In Chil Sung Forms, there are slow movements and fast movements...in MOST CASES, the slow movements begin with inhalation. In Ee Lo, when you come back south (doing the front kicks), as you position your hands prior to the kick, slowly inhale. As you kick, exhale.

4) Always breath through your diaphragm. If your shoulders are moving, you are breathing improperly. Breath should come in and THROUGH your lungs, down to your diaphragm and forced out with that muscle. Even on harder exhalations. Shoulders should always stay level.

Hopefully these help - as I'm sure you've noticed, you can practice for years and still continue to learn things about the forms....you CANNOT master every aspect in a few weeks, it simply isn't possible. There's just too much there.

Thank you or the sage advice, Craig. At least that's a start for me! I will focus on inhaling right before the front kicks. Do you mean I should inhale as I place my hands at my ribs to kick or right after I exhale with the energy press (I exhale with the energy press, right?)? I ask that because I've been exhaling as I press. Hopefully these don't seem like dumb questions, but I've only learned to exhale when kihapping.

I'll keep an eye on the shoulder movement. I hope that every day it gets a little better.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Lynne,

A few things to think about...

1) You should exhale for EVERY MOVE. Never hold your breath. This is a fundamental principle of Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do. Now, some movements are reversed, where the inhalation and exhalation are reversed, but any time that you are expelling energy, you should be exhaling or Kihaping. The breathing reinforces your power.

2) Every form has a rhythm. Some schools use different rhythms than others, so I can't speak for your school. For example, at my school, the first few moves of the Kichos go 1,2 pause 1,2 pause, 1,2 pause 1,2 kihap, etc. Now the Chil Sungs have slightly different rhythms since they have the huge contrast between hard and soft, fast and slow. So learn your rhythm and that will give you some insight into the breathing.

3) In Chil Sung Forms, there are slow movements and fast movements...in MOST CASES, the slow movements begin with inhalation. In Ee Lo, when you come back south (doing the front kicks), as you position your hands prior to the kick, slowly inhale. As you kick, exhale.

4) Always breath through your diaphragm. If your shoulders are moving, you are breathing improperly. Breath should come in and THROUGH your lungs, down to your diaphragm and forced out with that muscle. Even on harder exhalations. Shoulders should always stay level.

Hopefully these help - as I'm sure you've noticed, you can practice for years and still continue to learn things about the forms....you CANNOT master every aspect in a few weeks, it simply isn't possible. There's just too much there.

What he said, even though I also don't know the form. Breathing is always necessary. Helps keep your rhythm as well. Oh, and you don't pass out afterward...man do I hate asthma.

 

[Lynne]

What he said, even though I also don't know the form. Breathing is always necessary. Helps keep your rhythm as well. Oh, and you don't pass out afterward...man do I hate asthma.

Ahhh...breathing and rhythm. Two of you have mentioned that and I think it finally clicked. (If you say something often enough, we will get it!) I don't know if I can do all of this in two weeks but I can try and I might find things easier overall if I can apply some of it (the breathing).

We have quite a few people in our school with asthma (some of it exercise-induced, too) and they really struggle during sparring. I could imagine how asthma could be a bear in forms.

 

[MBuzzy]

Thank you or the sage advice, Craig. At least that's a start for me! I will focus on inhaling right before the front kicks. Do you mean I should inhale as I place my hands at my ribs to kick or right after I exhale with the energy press (I exhale with the energy press, right?)? I ask that because I've been exhaling as I press. Hopefully these don't seem like dumb questions, but I've only learned to exhale when kihapping.

I'll keep an eye on the shoulder movement. I hope that every day it gets a little better.

Your hands move out there real slow. You inhale AS THEY move (maybe even exhale depending on your school's interpretation....so ask your instructor on this one). Not exactly sure what you mean by energy press though...

Some schools do things different, even whether you inhale or exhale. Some schools don't audibly exhale with every move. Just remember that this board is a great place to get a lot of different points of view....but everyone is different! Especially across the different organization.