Higher rank, but not teaching?

IcemanSK

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We often talk about lower rank folks teaching (1st-3rd Dans) but how many train with or know folks who are of higher rank (say4th-6th Dans) who have been training a long time and have tested, but who have little to no interest in teaching.

I'm just curious if you've come across folks like this. I'm sure there are a few folks out there like this.
 

harlan

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I know a few. They teach for years, and then pass the school/baton onto others and basically train on their own and in small 'study' groups.
 

granfire

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I know a few people who just can't devote the time to teaching, so yeah, it happens.
 

terryl965

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For the most part almost all the people I associate with still train or teach a couple oftimes a week. There is a get together of people once a month on a friday to do nothing but train and teach each other and they are all 4-7 and it is a great time.
 

jks9199

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Not everyone of high rank is either interested or talented at teaching. Some may do great work one-on-one or being an example, but that doesn't mean they want to actually teach. Or they just can't devote the time to being a teacher.
 

terryl965

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Just for the record I enjoy teaching, it is a way for me to stay active and the statisfaction I recieve back from my students is what drives me to what to teach.
 
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IcemanSK

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I find it intereating that someone who trains (but especially tests) regularly wouldn't want to teach. Or rather, why would someone want to/or continue to test if they weren't interested in teaching, or helping out ocasionally around the dojang. This doesn't seem to fit among TKDin. IMO
 

Kacey

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I know some. Our organization requires students to teach - specifically, to be the head instructor of a class - to test to 4th degree. This is, in part, to continue the art; it is also part of the preparation for 7th degree for students who reach that level. We have three levels of black belt: 1st-3rd are novices (instructors of color belts), 4th-6th are experts (instructors of black belts), 7th-9th are master instructors (instructors of instructors). The theory behind needing to instruct is this: How can one be a master instructor if one has never brought a student from white belt to black belt?

No one is required to teach - but no one is required to test, either. Teaching is a testing requirement, and like any other requirement, students can either meet the requirement or forgo testing.

That said, exceptions have been made for people who cannot (rather than will not) teach - for example, active military who are situations where holding a regular, formal class is not feasible.
 

ralphmcpherson

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I train with quite a few high ranking guys and girls and I find it quite inspirational. For one reason or another they have decided that instructing just isnt for them, they just like the training side of it. They are more than happy to help out where ever possible but have just never become instructors. The class I train in currently has 2x 6thdans, 5x 5th dans and about 6 or 7x 4th dans. They all train, they spar, they do all the push ups and basically train their backsides off, its great to see.
 

puunui

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maybe chrispillertkd will chime in on the subject. he told us that is where he is at, high rank but no school/not teaching.
 

puunui

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I train with quite a few high ranking guys and girls and I find it quite inspirational. For one reason or another they have decided that instructing just isnt for them, they just like the training side of it. They are more than happy to help out where ever possible but have just never become instructors. The class I train in currently has 2x 6thdans, 5x 5th dans and about 6 or 7x 4th dans. They all train, they spar, they do all the push ups and basically train their backsides off, its great to see.

So these 4th through 6th Dan never had their own dojang and taught on their own?
 

Daniel Sullivan

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We often talk about lower rank folks teaching (1st-3rd Dans) but how many train with or know folks who are of higher rank (say4th-6th Dans) who have been training a long time and have tested, but who have little to no interest in teaching.

I'm just curious if you've come across folks like this. I'm sure there are a few folks out there like this.
There are some who have a strong passion for the art, wish to advance in the art, but have no interest in teaching. Or perhaps do not have the temperment for teaching.

Lack of interest may be due to personal demands that do not impact their training time, but either leave them with no time for anything other than training or leave them without the emotional energy or the patience needed to teach a regular class or classes.

Some may also have very successful businesses and have no desire to be a school owner. Or perhaps they don't want the headaches of being a school owner.

Daniel
 

ralphmcpherson

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So these 4th through 6th Dan never had their own dojang and taught on their own?
No, they have just continued training, our GM will offer them their own class once 4th dan but they dont have to take it and many dont (we always maintain about 30 full-time instructors in each metro area). I think its usually because they would have to sacrafice their own training to some degree if they were to take up teaching. I actually spoke to a 6th dan in regards to this late last year at one of our club 'korean food' nights and he told me he started training at 16 (he is now 56) and has trained continuosly the whole time and instructing was something that never appealed to him largely because he has other commitments on his off nights from tkd, plus a couple of kids and all the usual priorities and felt the only way he could commit to teaching two nights a week would be if he sacrificed his training on those two nights.
 
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puunui

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No, they have just continued training, our GM will offer them their own class once 4th dan but they dont have to take it and many dont (we always maintain about 30 full-time instructors in each metro area). I think its usually because they would have to sacrafice their own training to some degree if they were to take up teaching.


Personally, if a student does not wish to teach and has never brought up at least one student to 1st Dan by himself, then that student will never get promoted past 4th Dan.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Personally, if a student does not wish to teach and has never brought up at least one student to 1st Dan by himself, then that student will never get promoted past 4th Dan.
Which highlights another difference between our systems. If a student at our school instructs but does not continue to actively train then they wont be promoted beyond 4th dan.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Personally, if a student does not wish to teach and has never brought up at least one student to 1st Dan by himself, then that student will never get promoted past 4th Dan.
I can understand your logic behind this, and I respect why you would do it this way. On the other side of the coin, however, people do MA for different reasons. I started tkd with a good mate of mine, I run a large company for a living and he is a very good/passionate school teacher. We both did MA because we wanted a place to just 'get away from it all'. Years on now we have both discussed the prospects of instructing down the track. He has made the point that he teaches all day for a living and at a school which demands quite a lot of its teachers, he does tkd to get away from teaching and the last thing he wants to do with his 'hobby' is turn it into another teaching job. I can see the frustration in his face any time our instructor asks him to go and teach a bunch of child white belts their form, he teaches kids for a living and this is supposed to be where he can come to escape from work. I respect that, and I dont believe he should be under any obligation to have his own class down the track, he trains very hard and puts a lot of time into tkd out of class and is going to be a very good martial artist whether he instructs or not.. Me, however, I would love to become an instructor oneday when the time is right and I will be given that opportunity. Each to their own I guess, and I dont think me instructing is going to make me a better martial artist than him, we are just taking different routes on the martial journey.
 

granfire

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There are some who have a strong passion for the art, wish to advance in the art, but have no interest in teaching. Or perhaps do not have the temperment for teaching.

Lack of interest may be due to personal demands that do not impact their training time, but either leave them with no time for anything other than training or leave them without the emotional energy or the patience needed to teach a regular class or classes.

Some may also have very successful businesses and have no desire to be a school owner. Or perhaps they don't want the headaches of being a school owner.

Daniel

Exactly.

A lady I trained with used to be a bodybuilder, pretty successful at the regional level. She mentioned one time that to be good at it you had to be selfish and everything had to revolve around you, making everything else second banana. I do see that is the same if you have the same passion for TKD. Teaching does take away from your training.

And some people just don't want to own a business. Or the responsibility to have people depend on you.
 

puunui

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Each to their own I guess, and I dont think me instructing is going to make me a better martial artist than him, we are just taking different routes on the martial journey.


Give it time. When I was 1st Dan, the last thing on my mind was teaching a class. I wanted to learn, not teach.
 

puunui

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A lady I trained with used to be a bodybuilder, pretty successful at the regional level. She mentioned one time that to be good at it you had to be selfish and everything had to revolve around you, making everything else second banana. I do see that is the same if you have the same passion for TKD. Teaching does take away from your training.


I don't know if you read my explanation of the Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae, but the pioneers addressed this. By the way, ITA, is your organization the one who works with Dr. Kimm? He mentioned once that he was working with an ITA group but I didn't know which one.
 

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