Help with a difficult decision.

Kyosanim

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I joined my friend's TKD class about two years ago now and I have found myself in a difficult position. My friend studied with his master for about four years before I joined. Several months ago our school was shut down because there weren't enough students to pay the rent on the building.

I joined with one other of our close friends. Our blue belt friend trained us every day for about a year and half. Both of us caught up to him in skill, and I caught up in rank. I tested for my black belt right before we got closed down. That was a mistake. I wish I had waited for my friends.

Now we have the chance to test at an ATA school. Our master hated ATA.
He said if we did not get our rank from korea it was not valid. I don't know what to expect. We were told ATA is not real TKD. Can someone fill me in?

The school says that they will honor my black belt, and let me test for 2nd dan. I worked really hard to get my black belt. Will the standard be the same?
Or will it be like our old instructor said?


Anyone who has info on the subject or just some friendly advice?

It would be a big help.

Thanks in advance.
 

terryl965

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ATA has there own brand sort to speak off, most svhools outside of the ATA does not approve them for rank certification. You are in a tough spot I do not envy you at all. Best of luck no matter which way you go...
 
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Kyosanim

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ATA has there own brand sort to speak off, most svhools outside of the ATA does not approve them for rank certification. You are in a tough spot I do not envy you at all. Best of luck no matter which way you go...


I see. What does their own brand mean? Our old 3rd dan test meant breaking concrete. Theirs is bow staff.

I'm assuming you mean they have a lower standard?
 

terryl965

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I see. What does their own brand mean? Our old 3rd dan test meant breaking concrete. Theirs is bow staff.

I'm assuming you mean they have a lower standard?

In some eyes yes it is a lower standard, what I mean they have there own sets of poomsae, forms and eerything else. What I hear is they are alot softer than alot of other schools but that is a matter of opinion. The best advise any of us can tell you is go and train with them for a week and see if it is or not what you are wanting out of the school. I have seen bad in all orgs along with some great ones as well. Like I said not much help but I am here to answer and speak what I have been told.
 

dancingalone

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The school says that they will honor my black belt, and let me test for 2nd dan. I worked really hard to get my black belt. Will the standard be the same?
Or will it be like our old instructor said?

This happened to my niece. She left the ITA (an ATA off-shoot) and joined the ATA. They honored her rank and just worked with her to learn the ATA material before she tested for the next rank she would have been due.

It's a friendly transfer policy. As Terry says, depending on the type of TKD you learned previously the relearning process might be an easy one or a difficult one. The ATA has their own curriculum with forms named the Songahm forms. You might be in for a lot of new material if you studied another TKD system altogether.

As for the importance of being certified in Korea... Well, I don't think that's necessary. It's true that the KKW certification is the most widely recognized one throughout the world, but the importance of being attached to Korea is at best a tip of the hat to the cultural origins of TKD. At worst, it's simply a benign form of racism where one assumes the TKD to be the best simply because it's affiliated with Asians. (And I say that as an Asian American myself.)

If you value the cultural connection, then by all means pursue a tie with Korea. Pragmatically, I've seen plenty of outstanding martial artists who hold certificates from American groups.

The ATA does have somewhat of a reputation for being overly commercial and too focused on training children. My niece and nephew enjoy their training with them though.
 

Mark Lynn

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I joined with one other of our close friends. Our blue belt friend trained us every day for about a year and half. Both of us caught up to him in skill, and I caught up in rank. I tested for my black belt right before we got closed down. That was a mistake. I wish I had waited for my friends.

Not sure what you meant by waiting for someone, if you tested for BB prior to the school shutting down than what is the problem? Why wait? You said you caught up with the friend in skill and rank, this should have been because you put forth effort and you earned your rank. So be glad that your instructor got to test you before the school closed down.

Now we have the chance to test at an ATA school. Our master hated ATA.
He said if we did not get our rank from korea it was not valid. I don't know what to expect. We were told ATA is not real TKD. Can someone fill me in?

Now I might be stepping off the cliff here but I take it the ATA school was a competing school with your previous master? If so this might be professional jealousy, same with the whole no rank is valid unless it is from Korea thing. Unless your rank is from korea the korea TKD people won't recognize it but...... For some people this is real important for others......

The school says that they will honor my black belt, and let me test for 2nd dan. I worked really hard to get my black belt. Will the standard be the same?

This really depends upon the school and it's standards. Breaking concrete or learning a bo staff form or forms which is harder? Again this depends. You might actually have to learn to use the bo staff instead of just doing a form. Learning to strike with and yield a bo staff if it is a complete curriculum on the bo sounds harder to me than breaking a piece of concrete. But I'm not familiar with the ATA or your previous instructor testing requirements.

Or will it be like our old instructor said?

No one knows for sure, and you won't either until you go and check out the school and see if it meets your needs. I wouldn't worry about what your instructor felt about the ATA if he is no longer in your life. Instead see if they meet your expectations and if they can help you grow and continue in the martial arts.
 
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Kyosanim

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Not sure what you meant by waiting for someone, if you tested for BB prior to the school shutting down than what is the problem? Why wait? You said you caught up with the friend in skill and rank, this should have been because you put forth effort and you earned your rank. So be glad that your instructor got to test you before the school closed down.



Now I might be stepping off the cliff here but I take it the ATA school was a competing school with your previous master? If so this might be professional jealousy, same with the whole no rank is valid unless it is from Korea thing. Unless your rank is from korea the korea TKD people won't recognize it but...... For some people this is real important for others......



This really depends upon the school and it's standards. Breaking concrete or learning a bo staff form or forms which is harder? Again this depends. You might actually have to learn to use the bo staff instead of just doing a form. Learning to strike with and yield a bo staff if it is a complete curriculum on the bo sounds harder to me than breaking a piece of concrete. But I'm not familiar with the ATA or your previous instructor testing requirements.



No one knows for sure, and you won't either until you go and check out the school and see if it meets your needs. I wouldn't worry about what your instructor felt about the ATA if he is no longer in your life. Instead see if they meet your expectations and if they can help you grow and continue in the martial arts.



Well I mean I wish I could have tested with my buddies. I don't really think you could say they were a competing school as we were about twenty miles from them, but then again we did drive a long way to class, so I suppose you could say they were. As for it being a loyalty issue.... Well lets just say that after testing some....things were said, done, and came out through other sources and my respect for the man has more than faded. To be honest I would be tempted to hit him were we ever in the same room again and so would my friends, but lets not go into that anymore. I appreciate the help from everyone.

P.S. Dancing Alone. I have read many of your posts on here and you always seem to have something intelligent to say on the matter. You really bring a lot to the board.
 

Disco

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Perhaps a little more clarification is needed with this........

I joined my friend's TKD class about two years ago now, My friend studied with his master for about four years before I joined. I joined with one other of our close friends. Our blue belt friend trained us every day for about a year and half. Both of us caught up to him in skill, and I caught up in rank.

Nagging question here...........from your posting, it seems as though the friend who has been training for roughly over 6 years, only reached blue belt level (most schools this is an intermediate level). Was there something preventing him from moving upwards or did he not wish to advance? Now he teaches you both and brings you up to his specific level and again, he just stays at that level and you proceed to keep advancing? If you feel remorseful because you did not wait for your friend(s) to reach Black Belt level with you, then don't...........from the why I understand this situation, if you waited, you'd most likely be waiting a very long time to achieve that Dan status.

Now as to the ATA portion of the discussion. Good advice has been offered, but the best thing that can be done is for you to attend some classes and see if it fits. Instructors are different within the same curriculum and this particular instructor may or may not be suited to your taste or personality. Only you can make that determination. Apparently, this seems to be the only other school in your immediate area, so unless there's another venue to tap, your kind of at an impasse for training, unless your willing to extend your reach.

Here's an additional question, are your friends also looking to attend this school with you? Are all of you still training together, so they can get your assistance in advancing to your level?
 
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Kyosanim

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Perhaps a little more clarification is needed with this........

I joined my friend's TKD class about two years ago now, My friend studied with his master for about four years before I joined. I joined with one other of our close friends. Our blue belt friend trained us every day for about a year and half. Both of us caught up to him in skill, and I caught up in rank.

Nagging question here...........from your posting, it seems as though the friend who has been training for roughly over 6 years, only reached blue belt level (most schools this is an intermediate level). Was there something preventing him from moving upwards or did he not wish to advance? Now he teaches you both and brings you up to his specific level and again, he just stays at that level and you proceed to keep advancing? If you feel remorseful because you did not wait for your friend(s) to reach Black Belt level with you, then don't...........from the why I understand this situation, if you waited, you'd most likely be waiting a very long time to achieve that Dan status.

Now as to the ATA portion of the discussion. Good advice has been offered, but the best thing that can be done is for you to attend some classes and see if it fits. Instructors are different within the same curriculum and this particular instructor may or may not be suited to your taste or personality. Only you can make that determination. Apparently, this seems to be the only other school in your immediate area, so unless there's another venue to tap, your kind of at an impasse for training, unless your willing to extend your reach.

Here's an additional question, are your friends also looking to attend this school with you? Are all of you still training together, so they can get your assistance in advancing to your level?


Yes we do train when able, but its a lot harder these days. One is going to college soon and is on his fifth year training. I would really like to see him get his black belt before he goes as it is very important to him. The other has been kind of down lately. He has a really crappy job and losing the school was a big blow to all of us. Testing would be a good way to get him motivated again and pull him out of his funk. Our instructor knew they were ready I know their ready, but I'm not of high enough rank to promote them. It just came down to money. I ended up having the testing fee at the time and they didn't. I don't know if I will end up attending the school formally, but if they will let my friends test thats good enough for me. I teach a little on the side to bring in some extra money as things are tight these days and going up in rank may help my credibility as a teacher and get me more students, but its really just about helping my friends. The instructor said they just have to learn the ATA forms. Piece of cake.
 

Archtkd

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Now we have the chance to test at an ATA school. Our master hated ATA.

He said if we did not get our rank from korea it was not valid. I don't know what to expect. We were told ATA is not real TKD. Can someone fill me in?

The school says that they will honor my black belt, and let me test for 2nd dan. I worked really hard to get my black belt. Will the standard be the same?
Or will it be like our old instructor said?


Anyone who has info on the subject or just some friendly advice?

It would be a big help.

Thanks in advance.

It all depends on what you want. Anyone who is telling you that ATA Taekwondo in general is not real taekwondo is wrong. Anyone who told you that you have to have a certficate from Korea to be a black belt in Taekwondo is full of &%$unmentionables?

Certfication, the diffences in tests and whether people are breaking rocks or swinging machetes at said events should not alone be the things by which you decide on which instructor you pick.

Take a hard look at the whole curriculum of the instructor you are considering; their teaching style, dojang, student body, etc. and decide whether that fits in with what you are seeking in Taekwondo. Evaluate whether the instructor will help you achieve your long term goals besides a certificate.

These are some area, you might want to consider. Are you trying to become a regular practitioner, competitor or teacher and if so in what style. Point sparring or Olympic style sparring? What forms? ATA, ITA, ITF, WTF? Weapons or no weapons? Are you looking for street self defense, breaking, demonstration, etc?
 

granfire

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I am sorry to hear that your old school shut down, that always sucks.

Anyhow, being ITA myself my take on joining a new place:

I am not going to comment on the 'hate ATA' that's quiet personal. On whether or not the organization is good/bad depends on what you want to get out of it.

I found that a lot of organizations do readily accept previous rank, of course you will have to learn their material to their specification before the next rank advancement, but that is really not a big deal, learning a weapon if it is requirement might take up some time, but it's also fun and a break from the usual material.

In any case, the ATA school does not need to be the end of your journey, there are many places out there. A friend of mine took his school from the ITA a few years back to join the TA (Taekwando America) and is now in a group of indipendent schools.

The the question of whether the non KKW/WTF/ITF schools are too soft largely depends on on the individual school. I have heard of guess students at several ITA locations complain the ITA guys hit too hard! ;)

The deal is, your old school is no more and if you want to continue you have to find a new place. You might have to kiss a few frogs along the way, but there are many many great instructors out there (a lot of quacks, too).

So good luck on your journey.
 
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Kyosanim

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I am sorry to hear that your old school shut down, that always sucks.

Anyhow, being ITA myself my take on joining a new place:

I am not going to comment on the 'hate ATA' that's quiet personal. On whether or not the organization is good/bad depends on what you want to get out of it.

I found that a lot of organizations do readily accept previous rank, of course you will have to learn their material to their specification before the next rank advancement, but that is really not a big deal, learning a weapon if it is requirement might take up some time, but it's also fun and a break from the usual material.

In any case, the ATA school does not need to be the end of your journey, there are many places out there. A friend of mine took his school from the ITA a few years back to join the TA (Taekwando America) and is now in a group of indipendent schools.

The the question of whether the non KKW/WTF/ITF schools are too soft largely depends on on the individual school. I have heard of guess students at several ITA locations complain the ITA guys hit too hard! ;)

The deal is, your old school is no more and if you want to continue you have to find a new place. You might have to kiss a few frogs along the way, but there are many many great instructors out there (a lot of quacks, too).

So good luck on your journey.


Thanks for the advice everyone.
 

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