Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

[Bayroum]

Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

if yes, how effective is it generally speaking ?

I did other more full-contact system before and want to get into Wing-Chun, but I also want to make sure I learn something " new ".
I read so many bad things online about Wing-Chun claiming it is not effective at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[Callen]

Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

if yes, how effective is it generally speaking ?

I did other more full-contact system before and want to get into Wing-Chun, but I also want to make sure I learn something " new ".
I read so many bad things online about Wing-Chun claiming it is not effective at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

It has worked for me. IMO, it's all about how the Wing Chun system is trained. Unrealistic training methods = unrealistic results, regardless of the style.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What else do you need if you can do this?

 

[Bayroum]

What else do you need if you can do this?

I don't think this represents a self-defence situation. He is using chain punches, which are used in WT, but how does it look with an attacker who comes at you with a knife or two attackers swining at you on a night out with wifey.

Positive thing I remember is sparring against a WT guy in my TKD school ages ago. He hit me in the face quite a lot, which usually people do not manage very often and his strikes were hard as steel.

 

[marvin8]

What else do you need if you can do this?

Per Vitor, you need boxing not Wing Chun.

Boxing for MMA
Jul 26, 2022

Vitor Belfort starring in the boxing part of Vale Tudo lessons (2001) for Panther Productions. As part of the video, he demonstrates his boxing skills, which were relatively advanced in for MMA at the time. For example, in his fight against Wanderlei Silva, Belfort caught the future PRIDE champion Wanderlei Silva with a counter-punch early in the first round, following up with blitzing 1-2s which ended the match.

At the age of 12, Belfort had started his career training in boxing with Claudio Coelho, before being recruited by Carlson Gracie of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fame...

Despite the grappler label, it soon became apparent that Belfort's main advantage was his relatively technical boxing skills, with the young fighter quickly knocking out his first three rivals. Although he went on to struggle against rivals such as Randy Couture and Chuck Liddell, who also possessed decent ability in their fists, Belfort's explosive entrance into the UFC showed that boxing had much to offer to an MMA fighter.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Per Vitor, you need boxing not Wing Chun.

What important is not the MA style but principle/strategy. A valid strategy/principle can be learned from different resources.

People always say that WC and boxing are different. What if you have cross trained both WC and boxing? When your fist meets on your opponent's face, is that a WC punch, or is that a boxing punch?

The day when you say, "This is boxing. This is not WC." You have just set limitation on yourself.

Does this group (in the following picture) look like long fist guys, Chinese wrestling guys? Sanda guys?, MMA guys?, ... ? As long as they can fight, who cares?

The 1st guy on the right with red jacket is also a WC instructor.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

if yes, how effective is it generally speaking ?

I did other more full-contact system before and want to get into Wing-Chun, but I also want to make sure I learn something " new ".
I read so many bad things online about Wing-Chun claiming it is not effective at all.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

The majority of Wing Chun online is goofy, but it's one of the most precious martial arts in history, since it contains a long, long distillation of different fighting styles, including everything in boxing.

Most of the people who say bad things about it, don't know a thing about it. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are bad at it, love to post diatribes and videos online about it. I cannot think of another style that has had so many apologistas, except maybe Aikido and Ninjutsu (I love both of those arts).

I think Wing Chun is, of maybe all Kung Fu styles, the most misunderstood and misrepresented. I kind of repeat this mantra but it's best to learn Wing Chun along with a wider exposure to southern Chinese MA. There are other Chinese family styles that contain the entirety of Wing Chun.

 

[marvin8]

What important is not the MA style but principle/strategy. A valid strategy/principle can be learned from different resources.

People always say that WC and boxing are different.

There are differences in concepts, methods of training, techniques, footwork, etc.

The day when you say, "This is boxing. This is not WC." You have just set limitation on yourself.

Vitor says it's boxing, because he trained boxing. "At the age of 12, Belfort started his career training in boxing [not Wing Chun] with Claudio Coelho."

The Blitz (chain punching) video clip is from Vitor's DVD 8 "Ultimate Boxing Techniques," "Ultimate Vale Tudo." There Vitor goes through boxing techniques, footwork, drills and pad work.

 

[Callen]

I don't think this represents a self-defence situation. He is using chain punches, which are used in WT

It is also not a representation of the Wing Chun system.

 

[Callen]

A valid strategy/principle can be learned from different resources.

The OP is asking about Wing Chun, not mixing or blending anything. Why not just discuss the valid strategies and principles of the Wing Chun system?

 

[Callen]

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

In terms of effectiveness, what information are you searching for exactly?

 

[Bayroum]

In terms of effectiveness, what information are you searching for exactly?

How do individuals with experience in various martial arts systems, including those with full-contact training, assess the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun for self-defense, considering its predominantly non-full contact approach, and what insights can they share regarding its potential application in real-life situations?

 

[Oily Dragon]

How do individuals with experience in various martial arts systems, including those with full-contact training, assess the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun for self-defense, considering its predominantly non-full contact approach, and what insights can they share regarding its potential application in real-life situations?

For starters, Wing Chun is not intended to be "non full contact".

If anything, that sort of "too deadly to spar" quality affects every art, but there are really no CMA that instruct against contact that I know of. What you do find is a lot of people willing to sell lessons without any sort of real physical training.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Just one example, a basic southern Chinese punch is the sun character, fire arrow fist. In Wing Chun this is the vertical centerline punch. This is a KO strike when landed properly. Effective? Of course, but to pull it off against someone, take lots of live practicing.

 

[Callen]

How do individuals with experience in various martial arts systems, including those with full-contact training, assess the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun for self-defense, considering its predominantly non-full contact approach, and what insights can they share regarding its potential application in real-life situations?

IMO, a full contact approach is the only way to properly develop skill within the Wing Chun system (or any fighting system for that matter). Assessing the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun is done by putting it to work; testing, sparring, fighting, experimenting and exploring the options of a given curriculum. All of those things should be part of training the system.

Regarding its potential applications in real-life situations, that is a very broad question. When trained realistically, it works in realistic situations. Of course finding out in person would be the preferred method. Anything more specific you have in mind about real-life encounters and the Wing Chun system?

 

[Holmejr]

TMA, including my FMA do a terrible job of free sparing. My take on self defense is that it is never revealed until absolutely necessary. I do not want to break into some silly stance and say “okay, you and me right now!”. We train to end a situation in seconds as violently as needed. When someone asks if WC is effective on the streets, my thought is, can the defender end the confrontation in 3 or 4 seconds. I think a well trained WC practitioner can. My non traditional WC instructor Ted LucayLucay was actually JKD/Kali/WC. He could jerk the crap out of you! Very explosive, over in seconds. My body hurts just thinking of it. Also, the vast majority of MA’s are really civilized individuals who just don’t put themselves in precarious situations and that’s a GOOD thing! Practice hard and pray NOT to be tested.

 

[Oily Dragon]

TMA, including my FMA do a terrible job of free sparing. My take on self defense is that it is never revealed until absolutely necessary. I do not want to break into some silly stance and say “okay, you and me right now!”. We train to end a situation in seconds as violently as needed. When someone asks if WC is effective on the streets, my thought is, can the defender end the confrontation in 3 or 4 seconds. I think a well trained WC practitioner can. My non traditional WC instructor Ted LucayLucay was actually JKD/Kali/WC. He could jerk the crap out of you! Very explosive, over in seconds. My body hurts just thinking of it. Also, the vast majority of MA’s are really civilized individuals who just don’t put themselves in precarious situations and that’s a GOOD thing! Practice hard and pray NOT to be tested.

I learned Jun Fan, Muay Thai, and JKD from the same dude, after a long number of years doing full contact Hung Ga San da. I hadn't really gotten into Wing Chun by that point but went back and learned it after, which is probably why it clicked into place for me.

Your comment about free sparring in TMA is on point, and this is where I really think people miss the whole point of Kung Fu training in general: it's hard, it hurts, and it's not for the weak of heart. I think we just live in a sort of laisse faire era of MA where everybody can and does claim to have the "deadlyz", but the few of us who have actually laced up gloves and gone into the arena know what works and what doesn't.

My Yi Gi Kim Yeurng Ma is best while lying on my back. I train it standing and prone, but I know exactly when to use it in a self defense situation. But if I tried to argue this with many Wing Chun people, they think I'm the nut, and when I offered to show them we all know how it goes. A weak guard is a weak guard.

 

[Bayroum]

IMO, a full contact approach is the only way to properly develop skill within the Wing Chun system (or any fighting system for that matter). Assessing the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun is done by putting it to work; testing, sparring, fighting, experimenting and exploring the options of a given curriculum. All of those things should be part of training the system.

Regarding its potential applications in real-life situations, that is a very broad question. When trained realistically, it works in realistic situations. Of course finding out in person would be the preferred method. Anything more specific you have in mind about real-life encounters and the Wing Chun system?

IMO, a full contact approach is the only way to properly develop skill within the Wing Chun system (or any fighting system for that matter). Assessing the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun is done by putting it to work; testing, sparring, fighting, experimenting and exploring the options of a given curriculum. All of those things should be part of training the system.

Regarding its potential applications in real-life situations, that is a very broad question. When trained realistically, it works in realistic situations. Of course finding out in person would be the preferred method. Anything more specific you have in mind about real-life encounters and the Wing Chun system?

As a martial artist I don't think full contact is the only way but semi-contact will do pretty much the same job with less risk of injury.

I am not 100% sure, but Wing-Chun where I live, is usually never full-contact, people wear pads, protectors or stop shortly before the body, which can look and be pretty ridiculous in a sparring match.
I think we can all agree that this way of training is better than no training at all since in a real situation, your body is pumped with adrenaline anyway.

But what do you think about the techniques used ?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But what do you think about the techniques used ?

2 WC techniques that I like:

- Centerline Tan Shou is a good defense skill.
- Low side kick slide down along your opponent's shin bone is good kick (it works better with hard bottom shoes on).

 

[Callen]

As a martial artist I don't think full contact is the only way but semi-contact will do pretty much the same job with less risk of injury.

I am not 100% sure, but Wing-Chun where I live, is usually never full-contact, people wear pads, protectors or stop shortly before the body, which can look and be pretty ridiculous in a sparring match.
I think we can all agree that this way of training is better than no training at all since in a real situation, your body is pumped with adrenaline anyway.

I meant full-contact as in training with a resisting partner. Pads, no pads, some pads, fight club... whatever. There are obviously varying degrees of contact. For example, both MMA and Muay Thai have gloves and are considered full-contact (according to IFMA rules).

But what do you think about the techniques used ?

Tough question, I'm not sure how to answer that. IMO, there aren't really any stand-alone "techniques". So to me, it's like asking what I think about the entire system. In many aspects, it is simply about developing the punch.

Wing Chun at its core is more a way of training for fighting than it is a group of techniques or pre-determined answers. We build skill utilizing all of the concepts and principles of the system in unison, creating what I often refer to as an "action". Some of which are; adapt to the opponent, attack the attack, always pursue center, angle to take position, hands on top, attack and defense in a single action, responsive footwork, direct and efficient, etc… All of this is driven by mechanics that start with the vertical punch and proper elbow position.

In this way of thinking, potential applications are directly dependent on a greater and greater ability to implement the skills, concepts and structure of the system into a single reaction.