Hardcore martial arts classes

[xfighter88]

I am thinking about doing a pilot class in the next few months that is geard to the students who want a more intense experience. 2 hours of "whip your but into shape." It will be a total loss of cash flow but it is totally worth it if you can keep the hardcore people happy by providing them with an opportunity to train harder than the majority of students are willing to. I know I always wished for a class like this.

Has anyone tried this with more traditional martial arts classes? I am not looking for MMA guys and Muay Thai guys to say that Karate/TKD/whatever sucks "We have hardcore practices every time." Although that is one of the reasons that I really enjoyed Muay Thai. I am just wanting some feedback from instructors who have tried this approach before. Did it work? Were your tougher students happier? What kind of things did you specifically do different?

 

[Ironcrane]

It's been talked about in my school from time to time, but never really took off. We wanted to add extra time to our classes, but it couldn't be done due to the demands of everyday life. I did get into another school that trained harder for a brief period of time, and ended up getting hurt more then I liked. For my job, I really can't afford to be limping around the next day. I ended up having to quit that other school for several reasons.

 

[Tez3]

Why another post picking on the MMA/MT people? Can't someone manage to write a post without assuming we are ignorant yobs who know nothing about martial arts. I do karate, I do MMA as do many others. Live with it.

 

[just2kicku]

I am thinking about doing a pilot class in the next few months that is geard to the students who want a more intense experience. 2 hours of "whip your but into shape." It will be a total loss of cash flow but it is totally worth it if you can keep the hardcore people happy by providing them with an opportunity to train harder than the majority of students are willing to. I know I always wished for a class like this.

Has anyone tried this with more traditional martial arts classes? I am not looking for MMA guys and Muay Thai guys to say that Karate/TKD/whatever sucks "We have hardcore practices every time." Although that is one of the reasons that I really enjoyed Muay Thai. I am just wanting some feedback from instructors who have tried this approach before. Did it work? Were your tougher students happier? What kind of things did you specifically do different?

We have a BB class that's pretty intense. We have broken each others cups, got lumped up by clubs and a few of us have even been cut doing knife defenses. The thing that our "hardcore" guys like is that every now and then we'll turn off the lights and be attacked in the dark with clubs and have to defend ourselves. a good way of getting the crap knocked out of you, but still pretty fun.

 

[kingkong89]

I along with a few of the other black belts have tought about doing this just amoungst ourselves and a few other students we think would be able to keep up with the pace of a more intense class its always a good idea you just need to get everything planned out before you do it best of luck

 

[xfighter88]

Why another post picking on the MMA/MT people? Can't someone manage to write a post without assuming we are ignorant yobs who know nothing about martial arts. I do karate, I do MMA as do many others. Live with it.

Hey super sensitive guy did you not see that I have done MT? I am pretty sure I put it in my post. I wasn't bashing MT or MMA. I love MT. I have even done MMA matches before. I was jsut trying to start a discussion on spurring that kind of intensity into other martial arts. Geez why don't you read the entire post before you rant?

 

[xfighter88]

The lights out self defense sounds pretty cool. You must have a pretty good iabilty waiver over there.

 

[Tez3]

Hey super sensitive guy did you not see that I have done MT? I am pretty sure I put it in my post. I wasn't bashing MT or MMA. I love MT. I have even done MMA matches before. I was jsut trying to start a discussion on spurring that kind of intensity into other martial arts. Geez why don't you read the entire post before you rant?

I'll stop ranting when you read what you write sunshine. You managed not to mention MMA on the other post saying the same thing you put up so why allow the MMA bashers a chance to smirk yet again? when you've seen as much MMA bashing as I have you'll understand. don't give the bugger an inch because they will take a mile.
I can be as sensitive as I want btw, it comes with not being a guy for one thing.

 

[xfighter88]

I'll stop ranting when you read what you write sunshine. You managed not to mention MMA on the other post saying the same thing you put up so why allow the MMA bashers a chance to smirk yet again? when you've seen as much MMA bashing as I have you'll understand. don't give the bugger an inch because they will take a mile.
I can be as sensitive as I want btw, it comes with not being a guy for one thing.

I regret that I didn't mention MMA. I was not trying to bash anyone. I am sorry you misunderstood my intent. Regardless of your gender feel free to be sensitive. I didn't say you couldn't be, but don't be surprised if you get flamed for what I feel was an overreation.

 

[Tez3]

I regret that I didn't mention MMA. I was not trying to bash anyone. I am sorry you misunderstood my intent. Regardless of your gender feel free to be sensitive. I didn't say you couldn't be, but don't be surprised if you get flamed for what I feel was an overreation.

You posted asking MMAers and MT people NOT to make negative posts about karate so in effect you are saying we make trouble so hardly a case of me being over sensitive, more you having somewhat offensive reasoning.
If you didn't think we would post offensive things up why ask us not to?

 

[tshadowchaser]

MOD WARNING

Return to the topic of the opening post
that being has anyone tried hard core or hard training in their "karate" schools and what was the result

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have done it enough times to know that you should do one of two things.
1 have it open to those that what to do it
2 if done in a normal class let those that do not what it or can not do it bow out
I have lost many students over the years by doing HARD work outs. Some of them where darn good at sparring, and forms but did not want to put forth the effort to be really good . Maybe I should say they refused to find their limits and to push beyond that point.
Hard workouts be they exercise, staying in stance long periods of time, or hard contact sparring are not for everyone but they do develop top notch people

 

[MJS]

Why another post picking on the MMA/MT people? Can't someone manage to write a post without assuming we are ignorant yobs who know nothing about martial arts. I do karate, I do MMA as do many others. Live with it.

I'll stop ranting when you read what you write sunshine. You managed not to mention MMA on the other post saying the same thing you put up so why allow the MMA bashers a chance to smirk yet again? when you've seen as much MMA bashing as I have you'll understand. don't give the bugger an inch because they will take a mile.
I can be as sensitive as I want btw, it comes with not being a guy for one thing.

You posted asking MMAers and MT people NOT to make negative posts about karate so in effect you are saying we make trouble so hardly a case of me being over sensitive, more you having somewhat offensive reasoning.
If you didn't think we would post offensive things up why ask us not to?

Personally, I think you need to lighten up a bit. This is what the OP said was this:

Has anyone tried this with more traditional martial arts classes? I am not looking for MMA guys and Muay Thai guys to say that Karate/TKD/whatever sucks "We have hardcore practices every time." Although that is one of the reasons that I really enjoyed Muay Thai. I am just wanting some feedback from instructors who have tried this approach before. Did it work? Were your tougher students happier? What kind of things did you specifically do different?

I can go to a number of threads and posts, both on this forum as well as others, and find numerous posts of TMA and MMA bashing. Sadly its a case of lumping everyone into the same group. In other words....if 5 MMA people start saying TKD sucks, people are going to stereotype and think that ALL MMA people are like that. People who post, can control the pace of the thread, and thats a fact. Again, for every MMA guy who says something sucks, I can find 5 TMA guys who think MMA sucks. Perhaps instead of getting so upset about what this person said, take issue with the other MMA folks that ruin it for the ones who dont bash, but instead, have civil discussion. This thread was, IMO, designed to talk about hard workouts in TMA schools, ie: TKD, Kenpo, Shotokan, etc. I think what the OP didn't want is the typical MMA clown to come in and say that only MMA schools can offer hard workouts.

 

[MJS]

I am thinking about doing a pilot class in the next few months that is geard to the students who want a more intense experience. 2 hours of "whip your but into shape." It will be a total loss of cash flow but it is totally worth it if you can keep the hardcore people happy by providing them with an opportunity to train harder than the majority of students are willing to. I know I always wished for a class like this.

Has anyone tried this with more traditional martial arts classes? I am not looking for MMA guys and Muay Thai guys to say that Karate/TKD/whatever sucks "We have hardcore practices every time." Although that is one of the reasons that I really enjoyed Muay Thai. I am just wanting some feedback from instructors who have tried this approach before. Did it work? Were your tougher students happier? What kind of things did you specifically do different?

Personally, I love the Black belt or advanced classes, that're seperate from the regular group classes. A bunch of advanced/BB ranks, all getting together to basically beat the **** out of each other...but in a fun way. No egos, no attitudes, just a long, hard workout, running thru everything from basics, to stances, to kata, to SD, to sparring.

Does it work? Of course.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Has anyone tried this with more traditional martial arts classes?

Yes and this is why there are not a whole lot of Xingyiquan schools around the training is repetitive, boring to many (not me) and hurts.

Traditional Taijiquan is also rather difficult but there are so few of those around these days you might as well say there are none but the training can be difficult, repetitive, painful and boring to many.

Non-Traditional non-sport Sanda is also rather hard training and it too can be rather repetitive, boring to many and also hurts

 

[Steve]

Have you thought about varying the intensity here and there? At bjj, there are days when we go in, do a light warmup and then spar for over an hour straight with no break. There are days when we do an intense warmup with about a billion sprawls and burpees, etc, and then do technique, then spar for 1/2 hour. Some days, it's more mellow. Other days it's pretty intense. Just mix it up. Personally, this keeps things interesting for me. Varied curriculum couple with varied intensity.

Having done MT, you probably have seen that a competition or event tends to focus the group and provide a logical outlet for building up intensity.

 

[jks9199]

A suggestion: Don't start at "work 'em till they drop"; begin it more gradually. One thing I've seen happen when people start more hard core training is that they jump into it at 110% without letting themselves or their students build into it.

The other problem is that too many people today see martial arts as a 1 hour class, 3 days a week or whatever. That ain't enough to achieve the sort of goals you're describing. When I first began training, class started at 7:30 and ran till we were done. Now -- for a number of reasons -- the class ends pretty much at 9:30. As a beginning student, I routinely found hours a day to train and practice. I still do my best -- but I won't lie and say I spend the time now I did a few years back.

 

[Bruno@MT]

2 if done in a normal class let those that do not what it or can not do it bow out

...

Hard workouts be they exercise, staying in stance long periods of time, or hard contact sparring are not for everyone but they do develop top notch people

+1. Sometimes it's also not a matter of not -watning- to go hard, but other limiting factors. 10 years ago I was a beginning software engineer (doing project work) working onsite with clients. We spent half our time or more at client sites.

A colleague of mine was into pancrase, and MMA competition. He had been showing up at client sites with a busted face and black eyes. In some environments this is unacceptable.

 

[just2kicku]

The lights out self defense sounds pretty cool. You must have a pretty good iabilty waiver over there.

I can honestly say that I don't know. But by the time you get up to working out like that with us, our instructor pretty much has nothing to worry about. But it's not for everyone, let's face it, I've had a broken tooth, fractured ribs and so on from working out like that. Me personally, would have it no other way!

 

[xfighter88]

A suggestion: Don't start at "work 'em till they drop"; begin it more gradually. One thing I've seen happen when people start more hard core training is that they jump into it at 110% without letting themselves or their students build into it.

The other problem is that too many people today see martial arts as a 1 hour class, 3 days a week or whatever. That ain't enough to achieve the sort of goals you're describing. When I first began training, class started at 7:30 and ran till we were done. Now -- for a number of reasons -- the class ends pretty much at 9:30. As a beginning student, I routinely found hours a day to train and practice. I still do my best -- but I won't lie and say I spend the time now I did a few years back.

The gradual mentality seems to be a good idea for reducing the possability of injury too.