Hapkido vs TaeKwon Do

[Master of Blades]

Im just wondering why TKD is so much more popular then Hapkido? In my personal opinion Hapkido is a much better art seeing as it includes all the locks throws sweeps and stuff that they dont teach you in TKD. I think there is more kicks as well, not sure tho. So why is Taekwon Du so much more popular? Im also interested to know why on the description of the Hapkido forum it says "more hard then soft..." because all the Hapkido I have seen and heard about is full contact?.........so like I so many others I ask........why?

 

[arnisador]

None of the moderators has a Hapkido background so the description relies on second-hand info. Please, feel free to suggest a new description for that forum! See also this thread. If you do make such a suggestion, please do it in the Hapkido forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Mod-

 

[arnisador]

The sport aspect of TKD, its kid-friendliness, and the well-organized marketing of it all help.

There's also simple market share--the theory of increasing turns. Once you get more TKD schools, however it happens, more people take it, they open up schools, and it becomes widely available. It's harder to find HKD schools and that in and of itself is part of the explanation for the current (not historical) difference.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by arnisador

The sport aspect of TKD, its kid-friendliness, and the well-organized marketing of it all help.

There's also simple market share--the theory of increasing turns. Once you get more TKD schools, however it happens, more people take it, they open up schools, and it becomes widely available. It's harder to find HKD schools and that in and of itself is part of the explanation for the current (not historical) difference.

Most of the HKD I have seen is basically Jujutsu. You have to be able to do breakfalls, Locks, throws, self defense. It is more physical and mentaly hard on people than say TKD. I am not say TKD is for the wimps, but alot of people (mothers, kids) don't want to get hurt or feel pain. This is where TKD may have the advantage. It is more user friendly. Also in TKD around here you can get your Black Belt in 2 Years. This is the ATA that promotes their students this fast. Where most Martial Arts the standard is somewhere from 4-5 years or more. Another reason to like TKD.
Bob :asian:

 

[Eraser]

Hey there..

Ya know that this Hapkido girl is gonna add her 2 cents....

First off.. i would like to say that Hapkido can be both Hard and soft.... the softness i believe is in the actual motions that we do.. and the hardness.. is in the strikes and kicks....
We do utilize some Aiki-motion (that's where people say are similarity to Aikido comes from, and having studied that as well.. i believe there is some truth to that!!) which can really bring out the soft side of hapkido as well... but if we usually add more pain with it (for fun.. lol, kidding)

At my school where I train.. the kids are taught more TKD then HKD.. but when you reach the adult classes.. its all hapkido.. with some Kosho Ryu in too (you get even more of that when you reach black belt) now not all schools incorporate KR in the curriculum.. but i know for me it adds so much more to the Hapkido.
Also.. even though the adults are trained in HKD.. we get the dual certification of HKD and TKD... A lot of our kicks are TKD based.. but there is very little emphasis on the sport side of the TKD..

If anyone has any questions about Hapkido.. just ask in the forum.. and If I can't answer them.. I will try my best to get some info from others...

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Eraser

Also.. even though the adults are trained in HKD.. we get the dual certification of HKD and TKD...

Does this mean two black belts, one in each art (eventually), or does 'certification' mean something different?

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

......... Also in TKD around here you can get your Black Belt in 2 Years. This is the ATA that promotes their students this fast. Where most Martial Arts the standard is somewhere from 4-5 years or more. Another reason to like TKD.
Bob :asian:

I just looked at a website where they have instructors who are 17, 20 yrs old but , get this, with Black Belt 3rd dan and 4th dan in TKD. *sigh* May be these are gifted super achievers. It is possible to earn a BB at 20. But to reach 3rd dan, let alone 4th dan?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by KennethKu

I just looked at a website where they have instructors who are 17, 20 yrs old but , get this, with Black Belt 3rd dan and 4th dan in TKD. *sigh* May be these are gifted super achievers. It is possible to earn a BB at 20. But to reach 3rd dan, let alone 4th dan?

Position yourself far from sharp objects. Then start here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1412&perpage=15&pagenumber=9

Carefully read the entire page, including quoted material. Drink two shots and go to bed.

 

[Danny]

I just looked at a website where they have instructors who are 17, 20 yrs old but , get this, with Black Belt 3rd dan and 4th dan in TKD. *sigh* May be these are gifted super achievers. It is possible to earn a BB at 20. But to reach 3rd dan, let alone 4th dan?

Nothing wrong with 3rd Dan at 20. About half of the instructors at my school are 15-17 year olds with 1st-2nd degree BB. And if you where you to see our students you wouldn't think us unqualified to teach/hold our rank. Take me for example. Start at 7 1992. Got BB at 11 1996. Got 2nd Dan at 17 2002. Will get 3rd Dan 2005 at 20.

While I agree 4th Dan is pushing it it's not necessarily completely outrageous for a 20 year old to have a 3rd Dan.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by arnisador
Position yourself far from sharp objects. Then start here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1412&perpage=15&pagenumber=9

Carefully read the entire page, including quoted material. Drink two shots and go to bed.

I stand corrected. What I saw at that school's site is nothing comparing to the "superachievers" ATA is churning out. lol

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Danny

Nothing wrong with 3rd Dan at 20. About half of the instructors at my school are 15-17 year olds with 1st-2nd degree BB. And if you where you to see our students you wouldn't think us unqualified to teach/hold our rank. Take me for example. Start at 7 1992. Got BB at 11 1996. Got 2nd Dan at 17 2002. Will get 3rd Dan 2005 at 20.

While I agree 4th Dan is pushing it it's not necessarily completely outrageous for a 20 year old to have a 3rd Dan.

No. It is the 17 yr old with 3rd dan, the 20 yr old is 4th dan.

"....About half of the instructors at my school are 15-17 year olds with 1st-2nd degree BB....."

That would be Tien Lung TKD?

 

[H@pkid0ist]

I am a Hap Ki Do practitioner. I have been so for a few years now and am prepairing for my 2 Dan test. Our type MA is very fluid. We can go from hard to soft in a heartbeat if the situation requires it. Over all we are more of a fluid art that is very versitile in capabilities. It would be more correct to say that we are sof twith hard capabilities, or flowing with hard and soft aspects.

We award black belts at a certian age. I believe 13 is the earliest you can test. From there you do not progress as quickly as everyone else, becouse at this age their training is focused on other things like moral aspects and such.
As far as getting black belts in 2 years id TKD. The average student in a trditional HKD class ( no forms or katas) can earn their first dan after 2 years of study min, 2 hours a day 5 days a week. This is of course a generalization.

 

[Eraser]

arnisador
no we don't get 2 belts ..just one.. but we get certificates for both Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do... I dunno why.. we just do.. i will have to ask my instructor about that one..


AND.. as for the topic of young 3rd or 4th dan's

FUnny.. at my dojang where i train.. we have a 17 yr 3rd Dan, and a 21 yr old 4th dan.... (Hapkido) they have both been training since either of them were 4 yrs old... SO i have no issues with their ranks... they are great teachers and I have learned a great deal from them...
TO me its not how old your are.. but what you know!!
Just my 3 cents...


:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Danny



Nothing wrong with 3rd Dan at 20. About half of the instructors at my school are 15-17 year olds with 1st-2nd degree BB. And if you where you to see our students you wouldn't think us unqualified to teach/hold our rank. Take me for example. Start at 7 1992. Got BB at 11 1996. Got 2nd Dan at 17 2002. Will get 3rd Dan 2005 at 20.

While I agree 4th Dan is pushing it it's not necessarily completely outrageous for a 20 year old to have a 3rd Dan.

No doubt your teacher is good as you say he is, but no, a black belt is supposed to come after intense years of training. Some train 6 hours a day in the traditional way. I bet your teacher went to classes 3-6 times a week.

They just promote too fast. They as in McDojos, getting too commercialized. It's not about skill anymore, it's about what belt you hold.

 

[Master of Blades]

The whole young black belt thing does prove that MA is becoming more user freindly. My teacher trained 6 days a week everyday of the year except for boxing day and christmas for 3 hours a day. It took him 5 years to get to 2nd Dan Hapkido black Belt and he was taught by one of Dan Inasanto's studants. I think it does depend on the Teacher but me personally I beleive that a Black Belt is earnt through how well you have over the WHOLE of your training. Most people I have seen get there grading, leave for a while, come back in time to do there grading and thats how they get through. I've been doing it two years and we dont have set gradings and Im still only a green belt! Makes you wonder....:shrug:

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Danny



Nothing wrong with 3rd Dan at 20. About half of the instructors at my school are 15-17 year olds with 1st-2nd degree BB. And if you where you to see our students you wouldn't think us unqualified to teach/hold our rank. Take me for example. Start at 7 1992. Got BB at 11 1996. Got 2nd Dan at 17 2002. Will get 3rd Dan 2005 at 20.

While I agree 4th Dan is pushing it it's not necessarily completely outrageous for a 20 year old to have a 3rd Dan.

Actually, there is something wrong with that. I've seen from most schools in North America that all you need to do to pass to the next dan is forms, a few kicks, breaking, a few self-defense moves, and little sparring.

Traditionally, there's an endurance aspect of it, you're technique has to be perfect (i.e. if even ONE punch is sloppy, if you have a front stance instead of a walking stane, knife had technique, etc), mind aspect, and a lot of it is full-contact sparring with some gear on.

Testing for the next dan isn't one every two or three years. Takes at least 5-7 years for when I was around.

 

[J-kid]

.That must be a mcdojo Kid instructers lol.
sorry but 17/20 year olds shoudnt be holding black belts.
Sorry but the place that has kids as bb are mcdojos i mean 3dan wtf 4 dan?????

Real martial art Dojo reserve BB and Dans for students who train for many years with intensity to earn BB you have to study Ma in my Veiw for 10 years at least. To become as i like to call it one with the art. I guess some dojos need money so they do belt tests every other month WHat can you do

Thats just my input

 

[Marginal]

So says the person who trains in more than 3 arts at one time...

There's nothing inherently wrong with a teen etc holding a BB, it just means you're a serious beginner in TKD after all. Getting to 9th Dan in the ITF etc has a lot of time stipulations so even that teen BB's still going to have to invest ~30 years to attain a rank that indicates the level of mastery you seem to think a BB implies.

Some organizations dole them out faster etc, or have special placeholder belts until they reach a certain age. Some places are McDojo's but the presence of a teen holding a BB's a piss poor measure of such a thing.

 

[J-kid]

Hey i agree that some teens who train hard deserve BB, But 3rd and 4th DAN . THat gives martial arts a bad name 3rd and 4ths are reserve for those who commet many apone many years and train in a consint.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

I look at it this way. If the person has put in the dedication, time (years), blood, and swet, then it doesnt matter if he is a teen. If they deserve it then they deserve it. I have been studying for years and have been around the real training halls and mcdojos alike. If a person starts their study at 8years old and at 12 they get their 1st dan, at 14 their 2nd dan, and at 17 or 18 their 3rd dan, then as long as they can do what they have been taught proficiently and have developed the proper mind set then so be it. My teacher is 62. He is one of the original Hapkido Grandmasters. He started his studies at the age of 12 and by the time he was 18 he was a third degree and runing his own school. He is an increadable MAist.He studied in the old country the traditional ways. These way they started young and were masters in their early to mid 20s. They put in long hours and tons of hard work, borderline abuse and assault, to achieve what they have gotten. This is the old way. The way the great masters of the past trained. It didn't take them 10, 8, or 6 years to get their dans. And on top of it all the recieved 4 and 5th while they were very young. These are the people that developed the arts we study today. These are the forefathers of what we study today. It isnt how many years you study. Its how many hours a day, how much dedication, pain, blood, swet, tears that get you there. All these years of study in the great Americanized school is all about the money, monthly dues, Buisness. My teacher came up the old fashioned way and I would put him against any odds. Yes you have to still be good and know what you are doing. But, just becouse they are not 25, 30, 35 years old before they get their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dans doesnt mean they don't know what they are doing, are compitant, or worked any less than anyone else. Yes their are the mcdojos out there that give us all a bad name. But so does this negative way of thinking. They may be young but they are just as capable and compitent as anyone else out there. I know from first hand experience. My first Hapkido teacher was a 23 year old 4th degree and he knew what he was doing. Myself I'm almost 29. I'm nowear near him and I am 4 years older than him. Age has nothing to do with it. Its all personal abilities and dedication. Don't be closed minded to these younger people just becouse you may have had to wait 8 years before someone either felt you deserved your rank or you reached their financial highbar, and paid enough money to them to test. They way things are done mostly now is the American way, not the traditional way. Don't let the martial buisness man brainwash you into thinking that there are any set number of years you have to bleed before you have paid him enough money to be given the opportunity to test. And if anyone Thinks that this is just my personal opinion, well I get what I have to say from several Korean Grandmasters, old chinese masters, and a long time friend and teacher Okinowan master, and a ahrd core traditional Japanese stylist who is a breath away from being a master. With exception of the last 2 who are American the Chinese and Korean are their specific nationality. But all of them inclyding myself are traditional MAists ant traditional teachers.

BREEEEAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHH.