Gun techniques?

[GouRonin]

I know Krav Maga, American Kenpo, and JKD often have gun techniques included in their curriculum. This is not to say they are all workable but how many arts do this? Do the older arts even address guns? Do sport arts use them? Any comments?

 

[arnisador]

This raises the question, is pistolry (or riflemanship) a martial art? I must say, I think of archery as one but have trouble saying Yes to gunmanship, though this may not be a perfectly logical position. Add in today's training in retaining the weapon and perhaps I'd change my mind.

As an aside, there is a Japanese martial art of the bayonet, practiced kendo-style:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1208

 

[Cthulhu]

Technically speaking, anything that involves defense...of self, of nation, etc...coule be considered martial art. Having been 'brought up' on Asian martial arts, I tend to think of martial arts as those involving weaponless arts and weapon arts up to firearms. After that, you get into military science, self-defense, law enforcement training, etc. etc.

Another gray area, dammit!

Cthulhu

 

[Turner]

Aside from my experience in Kenpo and in basic training, my martial experience hasn't dealt with weapons. I feel that this is very wrong due to the increasing possibility of running into someone who has a gun.

I believe that my Tang Soo Do instructor touched on it a little by saying that if a person has a gun do whatever they say. Many will agree with the point of view, but I don't. If a person is holding a gun on you, unless in warfare, they have already proven they are dishonorable. How can you trust him when he says that if you do such and such he will let you live? First you have to decide if what he is asking you is worth doing. Money is the biggest motivator. I suggest that you carry a lot of loose ones on a money clip and have them in your pocket. If he asks you to hand over your money, pull out the roll of ones and throw them in one direction <keeping the clip in one hand so the money scatters> and haul your butt in the opposite direction. The money flying through the air will distract him to give you a head start and if he is really after the money he is going to go scrambling, if he is gonna shoot then at least you are moving and providing less of a target.
If the person has a gun and is using it to force you into a vehicle or even to walk to a different location, you need to do something RIGHT THEN. He wants to move you because he doesn't feel safe committing the crime in your current location. If you allow yourself be forced to a new location you are giving the assailant the license to do as he pleases with you. I'd risk getting shot and killed just so long as I go out my way, but if you have developed your mindset properly so that you have an intense love for life it is possible to survive a 'fatal' gunshot wound. But still, I'd rather risk getting shot and wounded and maybe killed than most certainly being dragged someplace else and killed outright.

 

[islandtime]

Originally posted by arnisador

This raises the question, is pistolry (or riflemanship) a martial art? I must say, I think of archery as one but have trouble saying Yes to gunmanship, though this may not be a perfectly logical position. Add in today's training in retaining the weapon and perhaps I'd change my mind.

As an aside, there is a Japanese martial art of the bayonet, practiced kendo-style:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1208

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More asides/questions.....
I have heard there are North Korean styles that have kata for "entrenching tools' (i.e. colapsable shovel)
Anyone else heard of this??

Gene Gabel

 

[Chiduce]

Yes, i offer instruction in (Clandestine Black Dragon Kenpo Karatejutsu) gun defensive techniques or kenju bogyo! To my knowledge some other martial arts that teach gun defenses are; Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu Karate-do, Kiyojute Ryu Kempo Bugei, and Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu; to name a few. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Kirk]

Chiduce .. but do you teach gun assaults?

 

[Despairbear]

In my Aikido dojo we some times work with training guns. Pointed to the small of the back, to the chest etc. We also recignise that by the time you have a gun touching you, you are probably going to die and trying something is better than doing nothing. The moves gereneraly work like a knife defence, get off the line crontrol the person and the weapon dissarm and pin.



Despair Bear

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Kirk

Chiduce .. but do you teach gun assaults?

Yes sir! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[tshadowchaser]

My instructor teaches gun control techniques to some of his students (depending on rank,age, and need to know)
Some of the Aikido people I used to work out with did some also.
Shadow

 

[Battousai]

HoJutsu is the samurai term for marksmenship/gunnery techniques. Every Jujitsu school should teach gun disarmament and marksmenship, if they don't they don't have the entire curiculum so to speak.
Even if a gun is touching you, you have the same chance of disarmament as if it were at arms length. The distances involved are insignificant to the speed of the bullet. The technique changes alittle is all.
As far as the realism of disarming someone with a gun, it goes like this:
Has everyone played that kids game were two kids hold out their hands, palms facing each other, and the one with their hands on the bottom tries to slap the others hands, while the other tries to react and move their hands out of the way when they see the other person's hands move? Some sort of weird pattycake slap game. Anyway, this is a perfect example of gun disarmament. In the game, usually about 70 to 80% of the time the person trying to slap makes contact. With the gun its the same, only you have a greater advantage because not many gunman are even thinking that you will resist. Who ever reacts first will win. Moving your hands out to intercept the gun can be faster then the gunman's squese on the trigger, because you acted first.
My school has a basic gundisarmament technique, the first thing ever taught about guns. And one of our students tryed it out with paint guns, he told the shooter to fire when they saw his hands move. Out of 10 tries he got hit only once in the shoulder. Granted the paintballs are much slower then bullets, but then again the shooter was waiting for him to move as well.