Guest Teacher in New School

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Joanneaj

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I am guest teaching (no compensation) in a new karate school as a favor to a dear friend who needs a break. The other owner asked me to take off my 2nd degree belt earned at another school and wear a generic 1st degree black belt. My own belt has a small school logo.

I'll be teaching for another two weeks, and I am uncomfortable with this. First, I believe that martial arts teaches respect for other styles, schools and instructors. I don't want to hurt the new school, but I also don't want to deny my training at the other school.

Second, I earned the 2nd degree belt. I think I should be able to wear it. Now, I'm not obsessed with belt status - in Korea, I was awarded a black belt after studying with a master for all of 7 hours - I never wore that belt because I felt I didn't really earn it.

Give me your honest opinions.

Thanks,
 

arnisador

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I'm not clear on whether you'll be teaching at a school that practices a different style, or one that is the same style but a different governing organization?

In any event, I think you are right to be offended--the only way I could see this being OK is if you have a 2nd degree black belt in Style A, a 1st degree black belt in Style B, and will be teaching style B exclusively at this person's school. Even then, if it were me I'd leave it to your choice.

It sounds like the fundamental question is, Does this person really trust your judgment? It sounds to me like he or she is trying to retain some control during this "break".

Oh, and Welcome to MartialTalk!
 

satans.barber

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Originally posted by Joanneaj
I am guest teaching (no compensation) in a new karate school as a favor to a dear friend who needs a break. The other owner asked me to take off my 2nd degree belt earned at another school and wear a generic 1st degree black belt. My own belt has a small school logo.

I'll be teaching for another two weeks, and I am uncomfortable with this. First, I believe that martial arts teaches respect for other styles, schools and instructors. I don't want to hurt the new school, but I also don't want to deny my training at the other school.

Personally, I think you should be able to keep your own belt on. If you were actually moving to the school and becoming a member, then fair enough, maybe your rank wouldn't be recognised (this is a fact of life it seems from what i've read). But if you're a guest then there's no reason why you can't keep your own rank on. Belts don't mean that much as any true martial artist knows, but asking you to strip rank like that (especially when you're doing the guy a favour) is disrespectful in my opinion.

Second, I earned the 2nd degree belt. I think I should be able to wear it. Now, I'm not obsessed with belt status - in Korea, I was awarded a black belt after studying with a master for all of 7 hours - I never wore that belt because I felt I didn't really earn it.
[/B]

Oh dear! That's certainly the fastest black belt I've ever heard of! Took me nearly 7 years, if I'd know I could get one in 7 hours....hehe, only joking :rofl:

Ian.
 
OP
J

Joanneaj

Guest
Thanks, both of you for your replies. By the way, I didn't mean to suggest that I am so good that the Korean teacher promoted me - on the contrary! I happened to be in a Korean school where the bar was lower than my own bb requirement, so that's why I didn't feel qualified. Having said that, boy did I like my Korean instructors. They were wonderful.

Back to the issue. The owner who asked me to remove my belt is lower than my rank (by quite a bit). That's probably what got me annoyed. It made me feel better knowing that someone agrees with me that it was not so cool. I went back in this morning and taught a couple of classes with the generic belt. It wasn't so bad LOL!

When my friend returns, I'll discuss the issue - just regarding the fact that certain traditions are important in the classroom.

Just found this discussion group. It's great. I'll be happy to subscribe or pay a fee. Let's not let this forum go away.
 

NYCRonin

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Although it has been years since I knotted my B.Belt around my waist - I still remember the protocol.
Let me get this straight - you are a 2nd Dan, and a friend who is of lesser rank asked you to teach for awhile to give him a break.
And this 'lesser rank' asked you to don a belt reflecting lesser rank while you teach.
Hmmm. I can understand your feelings about it and I would probably have told him I would wear a belt reflecting my proper rank WITHOUT the political logo, if that was what bothered him.

I wonder...is his rank a B.Belt adorned with brass balls?

Then again, I also firmly believe that such an individual should NOT be running any 'teaching' establishment with a 1st Dan anyway. Hardly qualified. Such things are a good example of what is wrong with martial arts in general. Beginners being taught by little more than a beginner.

Perhaps his lack of time 'on the job' explains why this situation arose in the first place. No senior practitioner would have placed you in the situation in the first place.

Ah, ranking. All the 'much to do...' it causes.
I can legitimately wear either of 4 bands of black cloth and, I think, I have one...somewhere...in my closet, somewhere.
 

lhommedieu

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Is the issue that your belt has the school logo on it or that you have two tabs (or whatever) on your belt that denote that you're a 2nd Dan?

It would be interesting to know the owner's rationale.

Either way, the owner is being pretty shallow. If they can behave this way in the first place, chances are there are some further issues in store for you with this person down the road.

Hindsight is the better part of valor...If you're ever in a similar situation again, here's how I would handle it:

(1) You either insist on wearing a 2nd Dan belt (you've earned it) OR (2) Let the owner know that you're happy to wear a white belt while teaching, since you've got no real rank in his hor her school. If students question why a white belt is teaching class that evening, you'll inform them that you've got 2nd Dan ranking in another system. Let the owner know that this will be a wonderful object lesson in the value of belts. Sit back and see what the owner says.

Best,

Steve Lamade
 

Datu Tim Hartman

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Trying to be as PC as I possibly can, I would tell him to "Kiss My ***".:asian:
 

Rich Parsons

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Originally posted by lhommedieu
Is the issue that your belt has the school logo on it or that you have two tabs (or whatever) on your belt that denote that you're a 2nd Dan?

It would be interesting to know the owner's rationale.

Either way, the owner is being pretty shallow. If they can behave this way in the first place, chances are there are some further issues in store for you with this person down the road.

Hindsight is the better part of valor...If you're ever in a similar situation again, here's how I would handle it:

(1) You either insist on wearing a 2nd Dan belt (you've earned it) OR (2) Let the owner know that you're happy to wear a white belt while teaching, since you've got no real rank in his hor her school. If students question why a white belt is teaching class that evening, you'll inform them that you've got 2nd Dan ranking in another system. Let the owner know that this will be a wonderful object lesson in the value of belts. Sit back and see what the owner says.

Best,

Steve Lamade

I travel with my Black Belt no desigantions for rank in Black, and a white belt. If I am invited, then I wear my Black Belt. If I am investigating, than I wear the white belt.

I agree with Steve's comments that you are most likely in for some issues down the road.

Good Luck
:asian:
 

tshadowchaser

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I think if the instructor invited you to teach he should have allowed you to wear your rank belt.
you earned it you should be able to wear it if you want.
Now if it is a completly different system and your system is represented on you belt I can see where he might not want his students thinking that he needs someone outside of the system to teach. He could have offered you a belt with 2 stripes and no logo to wear when you taught.
Teaching at someone elses school has its problems if the teaching is over a period of time. Both instructors must be on the same page all the time.
Best of luck with this situation.
ALWAYS remember the belt has no knowledge of its own
 

Matt

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I think the answers seen so far differ from mine, because I think I'm interpreting the question differently.

I sense that there are *three* distinct people involved.

A.) Person taking the break

B.) Person teaching for free to help friend.

C.) Other owner, of lesser rank than person B


What are you trying to do? If your goal is to cover the school for a short (finite, defined) period of time, so that person A can reassemble their head, then wear whatever person C asks. Why? Because you are there to pinch hit, not gather a following, or recruit students. It doesn't matter what you wear. It doesn't really matter what you have earned. You are the substitute teacher selected by the person you are replacing. That should be sufficient. You are there to help your friend with the least friction possible.

However, if person A asks you to do it again, make sure he clarifies all details that are important to you with person C so that this situation does not happen in the future.

If person C is the owner, that's how it goes. If agreement can't be reached, then just say no next time. Just fulfill your obligation this time, and don't cause your vacationing friend any unneeded stress to come back to. I wonder what person C makes guest instructors wear at seminars?

Matt
 
OP
J

Joanneaj

Guest
Thanks, again. The poster got it right that there are three people involved. Since I am doing a favor for my friend, and didn't anticipate this issue, I won't create a problem for my friend and simply wear the generic belt. My friend is co-owner and will probably feel bad about it when he gets back. But I feel that I should be able to wear it, and my responses run the same gamut as your responses - from kiss my ***, to more diplomatic discussion, etc. (And whoever said that there might be more issues along the way was correct - teaching style is VERY different, so I'm just going along until this week is over.)
 

Matt

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Originally posted by Joanneaj
Thanks, again. The poster got it right that there are three people involved. Since I am doing a favor for my friend, and didn't anticipate this issue, I won't create a problem for my friend and simply wear the generic belt. My friend is co-owner and will probably feel bad about it when he gets back. But I feel that I should be able to wear it, and my responses run the same gamut as your responses - from kiss my ***, to more diplomatic discussion, etc. (And whoever said that there might be more issues along the way was correct - teaching style is VERY different, so I'm just going along until this week is over.)

Your friend is lucky. Hey, when your friend gets back, he/she owes you one (extra, besides the one for teaching). I think your friend will be extra grateful. I think the students are lucky to get an alternate perspective for a couple weeks. When all is said and done, you've done right by your friend, what more could you want. Besides, when your friend is back and your responsibility is released, then you can tell the other owner with the inferiority complex to kiss your ***, without worrying about adverse effects on the students.

Matt
 

7starmantis

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When things like that happen to me, I always try to look at them as a lesson I needed to learn in humility. My Sifu took my sash a few weeks ago because one of the kids needed a sash, and ours were on backorder. So for about two weeks I've had no sash in class. I look to the visiting eye as the same level with the intro guys/girls before they have even taken the white level test. Doesn't bother me a bit, I must focus on my reason for doing kung fu, and that is for me, not for anyone else.
I'm not saying this is your situation, I just think telling anyone to kiss your *** is anti-productive. Just mark it up as a lesson someone thought you needed in humility, then it will be a good thing, and not a negative one.

JMHO,
7sm
 
OP
J

Joanneaj

Guest
Had to reread your reply 7starmantis as I am working hard to get through the rest of this engagement, hoping that I'm learning a lesson in humility. I have become the "backup" to the co-owner in teaching. I have never seen a situation where a quickly-made black belt leads, and senior black belt follows in the classroom!

Guess I should have gotten this straight before I agreed to guest teach. It is rather funny, though. The advanced belts who know the situation are looking at us - wha-a-a-a-t? I haven't said anything, because it's obvious what is going on.

Having ranted, this is probably a good experience. I am focusing entirely on the students, and making sure that I keep a positive attitude.

But I can't wait for my friend, the other co-owner to get back. I won't complain or say anything, but my guess is that the word will be passed, and then I will be all humble and wonderful!!!!!

Gulp, got to go hold some pads for 4 year old running jump side kicks!
 
OP
T

Titan Uk

Guest
Nice to see that you have help out your friend, but after reading all the replies.

I believe that it is short sight of the other instructor to request you to wear the generic belt.

If the need ever arises for a guest instructor at our club, I would never request that the instructor alters the belt. They have achieve it no matter what still. You are not becoming a member but are assessing at the club to teach.

Hope everything works out for you when you friend returns
 

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