Guantanamo Release... a mistake?

MA-Caver

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One former prisoner of 7 years at Gitmo was released... now is top level al-Qaida guy in Yemen. How many more are truly repentant of their crimes against the U.S. ?
Plus Saudi Arabia has developed Terrorist Rehab, using crayons and fingerpaints no less. Wow, who'd thought?


Pentagon: Gitmo prisoner releases not fail safe

By ANDREW O. SELSKY, Associated Press Writer Andrew O. Selsky, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 19 mins ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_guantanamo_al_qaida
Accompanying video of the Terrorist Rehab program
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/yne...N1phsboPu9IxIF?ch=4226714&cl=11686160&lang=en
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico The re-emergence of two former Guantanamo Bay prisoners as al-Qaida terrorists in the past week won't likely change U.S. policy on transfers to Saudi Arabia, the Pentagon said Monday.
More than 100 Saudis have been repatriated from the U.S. military's prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to Saudi Arabia, where the government puts them through a rehabilitation program designed to encourage them to abandon Islamic extremism and reintegrate into civilian life.
The online boasts by two of these men that they have joined al-Qaida in Yemen underscore that the Saudi system isn't fail safe, the Pentagon said. A U.S. counter terrorism official in Washington confirmed the men had been Guantanamo detainees. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to disclose that fact on the record.
So has Obama made his first major political blunder? Letting wild animals back out on the loose?
I would agree with him that the torturing needed to be stopped but releasing the prisoners is not a good idea. They need to be given a trial if any evidence is against them and then detained properly if not by our laws then international laws.
Of course terrorist groups won't recognize international laws will they, much less our own here in the states. They will follow the laws of God...err excuse me, of Allah. According to them those laws say kill the infidels.

Either way, I say stop the torture but do not release those suspects until a trial has been set and accomplished. We are the civilized ones aren't we? Then we need to maintain that.
 

Drac

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One former prisoner of 7 years at Gitmo was released... now is top level al-Qaida guy in Yemen. How many more are truly repentant of their crimes against the U.S. ?
Plus Saudi Arabia has developed Terrorist Rehab, using crayons and fingerpaints no less. Wow, who'd thought?



So has Obama made his first major political blunder? Letting wild animals back out on the loose?
I would agree with him that the torturing needed to be stopped but releasing the prisoners is not a good idea. They need to be given a trial if any evidence is against them and then detained properly if not by our laws then international laws.
Of course terrorist groups won't recognize international laws will they, much less our own here in the states. They will follow the laws of God...err excuse me, of Allah. According to them those laws say kill the infidels.

Either way, I say stop the torture but do not release those suspects until a trial has been set and accomplished. We are the civilized ones aren't we? Then we need to maintain that.

I got a bad feeling that this only the beginning of ignorant acts...
 

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They need to be given a trial if any evidence is against them and then detained properly if not by our laws then international laws.

The way these prisoners were obtained and what has been done with them since will essentially guarantee that none could be convicted in a fair trial under standard US criminal rules. See the recent ruling by Judge Crawford that al-Qahtani cannot stand trial due to the torture he endured, poisoning the evidence of his statements.

Add to that the fact that most of the prisoners are not considered dangerous by the US government itself and we are left with an impossible situation. Most of the prisoners are no danger. Of those who are, none could be convicted under fair proceedings. Thus, we have the Bush non-solution of holding these men for years and doing nothing. Only a handful were even started through the military tribunal process. Better that a few dangerous individuals are let go than to continue indefinite detention, which is an excellent recruitment strategy by our enemies.
 

Sukerkin

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It's my understanding, gentlemen, that what has been enacted is that if there is proof against an individual then that will be carried through to trial but if there is not then the people in question will be set free.

This does not mean just turn them loose in the street, fulminating with the indiginities they have suffered (as any of us would). There are overtures in progress to resettle these people in other countries, primarily Western Europe, where they can restart their lives without 'overwatch' (that part I do not believe but that's just my opinion).

Some of you might not think so but what Obama has done is a necessary move towards convincing much of the rest of the First World that America is working at undoing the damage to it's reputation that it has suffered through such blatant travesties of democratic justice as Guantanomo.
 

grydth

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Folks, not to destroy yet another fine Obama bashing with the facts - - - but all of the released dangerous prisoners who have rejoined terrorist forces were let go by the Bush Administration.
 

searcher

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If we let them go, we are just sending the radical Muslim element more cannon fodder. They will be the ones that are the next wave of people bombs.
 
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MA-Caver

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Better that a few dangerous individuals are let go than to continue indefinite detention, which is an excellent recruitment strategy by our enemies.
Better? For whom... 3000 more people, maybe 6,000? 12K, 24, 36 even?
Each of these men have now what could be considered (in their eyes) a justifiable motive to do unto others... on a massive scale.
You hold me for years and years without a trial and cause me pain, anguish, sleep depravation, starvation, and whatever else went on behind those walls at Guantanamo... and let me go back to my friends, family, country... you bet your *** I'm gonna want to extract some payment and I assure you I'd be a very difficult person to satisfy.

These guys would probably be no less hungry.

And now they'll be back in their own homeland and approached by those leaders and offered the chance (or brainwashed into it) to exact revenge against the infidels who have shamed them before Allah and martyrdom is the only way to obtain absolution.

Thanks but no thanks... I say sit on them indefinitely.
 

Tez3

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What if they weren't terrorists when they went in but were radicalised by being held there?
 

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You hold me for years and years without a trial and cause me pain, anguish, sleep depravation, starvation, and whatever else went on behind those walls at Guantanamo... and let me go back to my friends, family, country... you bet your *** I'm gonna want to extract some payment and I assure you I'd be a very difficult person to satisfy...Thanks but no thanks... I say sit on them indefinitely.

So, let me get this straight. The things we have done to these men are so terrible, and have made them so angry, that we must continue doing it? Hmmmm. Perhaps they may find forgiveness or understanding in their hearts eventually, but they will never do so if they are given life sentences for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or sold by their neighbors for the terrorist bounty, no questions asked. Morally, I'm also not sure how one can say that we have done wrong, and the answer is to continue doing wrong.

Plus, as I and others have said, the men being held aren't the only ones to worry about. This injustice is a useful recruiting tool for al'Qaeda and the like. Even our allies are less well disposed to us because of this prison. Closing it will take away that recruiting tool and improve our standing, which may offset any increased risk from released prisoners.
 

Gordon Nore

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Folks, not to destroy yet another fine Obama bashing with the facts - - - but all of the released dangerous prisoners who have rejoined terrorist forces were let go by the Bush Administration.

My understanding is the Obama admin has called for a 120-day review of case files of Gitmo detainees. Which makes me wonder... What has been going on all these years? Even with the prior argument -- which, I believe has been overturned by the ourts -- that NCBs are not subject to the Geneva Conventions, wouldn't it be prudent to know precisely what the detainees did, and what there threat is, if released.

Sounds like Obama is doing what should have been done in the first place.
 
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MA-Caver

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So, let me get this straight. The things we have done to these men are so terrible, and have made them so angry, that we must continue doing it?
No, it's not what I meant by continuing to "sit on them". Do without the torturing for information that actually, when you think about it can't be reliably trusted. But, that they are a past danger or a potential danger should be assessed and evidenced to hold them for the protection of the citizens.

My understanding is the Obama admin has called for a 120-day review of case files of Gitmo detainees. Which makes me wonder... What has been going on all these years? Even with the prior argument -- which, I believe has been overturned by the courts -- that NCBs are not subject to the Geneva Conventions, wouldn't it be prudent to know precisely what the detainees did, and what there threat is, if released.

Sounds like Obama is doing what should have been done in the first place.
Perhaps, arresting known terrorist and their cells is prudent to preventing further attacks. Yet for "national security reasons" what evidence they agencies that arrested them have cannot be revealed to little 'ole us.
That there hasn't been a known terrorist attack on U.S. soil supports that arrests are being (quietly) made and that it is working.
But we cannot and should not condone torture during detainment... for any reason. On this I will stand behind Obama and his reasons for closure.
While prisoner information is a good way to obtain intel it shouldn't be relied upon or trusted. I am assuming that it's not and that it's usually verified before enacted upon. But still. Torture proves nothing but the uncivilized nature of those doing it.
But I would be against release of prisoners because of their potential to commit to more violence or enacting the violence that brought them here to the U.S. in the first place, but were halted by their arrests. This potential should be weighed by the evidence against them, not simply because they're of arabic descent and/or from the middle east. That's just ignorant.
 
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