Ahh I only saw the first one (I didn't watch all the way through as I assumed the discussion was about the first one). It didn't look full power. He didn't throw it with anger, putting his weight behind the kick. I don't think the guy had a glass jaw either. I think it was just a normal kick that caught him right on the chin.
You don't have to throw a kick "in anger" for it to be full contact. As for not putting your full weight behind it, people have made the point that whipping your kicks rather than thrusting with the hip is a good way to generate full power, so I don't know if that would really apply either. If he didn't have a glass jaw I certainly don't see it as a normal kick that just happened to catch him on the chin. Not with the kind of reaction he had.
That's surprising because every time I've raised the disqualification for knock-outs in ITF competition, ITFers go posting about how it's still hard contact. You have even
previously wrote "I know people who have both refereed and fought at the WC's. You'd have to do some serious damage to your opponent in order to get DQ'd for "heavy" contact.".
At the WC's it does have to be very hard contact to get disqualified. The ITF rules as written don't allow for KO's as a way to win a match. If one occurs it's up to the referee to determine who is responsible. If it was the person kicking or punching then they should be disqualified. If the person getting KO'ed is at fault, say for not having their hands up and getting hit with a bandae tollyo chagi, and cannot continue the match then they would be eliminated. The WTF, on the other hand, recognizes knock outs as a legitimate way to win a match. That's a pretty obvious difference.
Also, please note, I was referring to an ITF World Chamionship match. The video ATC posted clearly was in no way equivalent to that.
Because the complaints seem to be centred around not wearing head gear and how bad this is. Given that the other branch of TKD does not wear head gear and the kick didn't seem to be 100% power, I wondered what the complaints were about.
Probably for a variety of reasons. Having two knock outs in what appears to be a sparing match in a class, not a tournament. I think someone already mentioned that boxers can KO opponents during competitions but certainly don't do so when simply working with a sparring partner because it can be dangerous. The video that is posted has two examples of KO's as a result of sparring practice. ATC asked if people thought this was a good manner in which to train. Obviously people think it is not. Also, and as I mentioned, both fighters do a great job of holding their guards down by their waists. Contra posts here on MT saying that such a guard allows for proficient defense against head kicks both fighters get kicked in the head and KO'ed.
It did, but remember recently it's reduced the contact required to the head. Initially I thought this was to improve the public's perception of the fights as it's easier to score for a touch than a subjective amount of contact. However, the WTF recently posted it's medical report and claimed it's one of the safest contact sports in the Olympics due to the low risk of injury and knockouts due to the new rules.
Have they also re-written their rules stating that knocking someone out will result in disqualification? Because if they haven't then they're simply saying you don't
have to kick someone full force in the head to score a point, but you
can, and if you do and it results in a KO then you still win. Now, I don't doubt people are going to have less full contact kicks to the head as a result of the rule change, but it's a mixed signal nonetheless, especially since you still have to hit full contact to the body to get a point.
I don't think they had great head movement ;-)
What are you talking about. Both of them had great head movement. They got kick, their head moved all the way to the floor and did a nice little bounce on the mats.
Oh, you mean a defensive head movement so they wouldn't get kicked in the face in the first place. Yeah, I'd agree to that. Of course since their hands were down by their waists the whole time they could've just raised them up a bit for actual protection. Meh. I'm sure people will just bring up more elite level fighters as examples of how anyone can fight with their hands down and still be awesome. And yes, people like Prince Naseem can fight like that. But 99% of us aren't him. And neither were those guys who were kicking each other in the head.
But I digress.
There have been plenty of knockouts by kicks to the head across martial arts where the hands were either up at the time or generally down. I don't think it's as big a deal as non-WTFers make it out to be. For example most of the kicks in this video the opponents have their guard up:
I think you're really missing the point. The video wasn't a kickboxing match or a WTF WC match. It was a sparring match that wasn't even in a local tournament. ATC asked is "this to [sic] brutal for training or what is needed to produce the best fighters? Seems a bit extreme to me and a good way to really get hurt." It looks like most people do not think it is a good way to train. You apparently think it is OK based on your assertion that the kicks aren't reallt full contact. Given the video I don't think that's an accurate assessment, but you're certainly free to believe it.
Pax,
Chris
