good stances

[Navarre]

hey, is the karate/JJ horse stance different from kung fu's?

To be honest, I'm not sure. Our stance, called a hachi-ji-dachi, is described as: body weight equal on both legs, toes pointed straight ahead, knees bent so that one can barely see the edge of one's toes, hips tucked in to be in line with the heels, defensive stance 75% defense/25% offense.

And, yeah, we were serious about our training. But we had a lot of fun too. We took such things as I described not as torturous regimens but as intriguing challenges. I mean, at home all alone miles away from anyone, only I knew if I was really willing to start over if I was on punch 672 when I flexed up for a second out of that damn stance...and, for the record, yep I started over again.

I never forget what it takes to move forward with even the most basic technique and I learned to never doubt what I can do through strength of will. Trust me, your stance will improve if you're unwilling to allow for anything but success.

 

[mantis]

To be honest, I'm not sure. Our stance, called a hachi-ji-dachi, is described as: body weight equal on both legs, toes pointed straight ahead, knees bent so that one can barely see the edge of one's toes, hips tucked in to be in line with the heels, defensive stance 75% defense/25% offense.

And, yeah, we were serious about our training. But we had a lot of fun too. We took such things as I described not as torturous regimens but as intriguing challenges. I mean, at home all alone miles away from anyone, only I knew if I was really willing to start over if I was on punch 672 when I flexed up for a second out of that damn stance...and, for the record, yep I started over again.

I never forget what it takes to move forward with even the most basic technique and I learned to never doubt what I can do through strength of will. Trust me, your stance will improve if you're unwilling to allow for anything but success.

this is our stances im talking about
http://www.shaolinwolf.com/morechitrainharder/stances1.php
i program computers, so i sit in a horse stance and try to finish my code before i fall down.. couldnt succeed yet!
you know what sucks... a year before i joined my MA class i was able to do splits in all ways, but then i got sick for a while, then wanted to come back to MA, and now that i did that i cant do any splits anymore, indeed i lost ALL of my flexibility.. brb.. gotta go cry for 10 min's

 

[mantis]

To be honest, I'm not sure. Our stance, called a hachi-ji-dachi, is described as: body weight equal on both legs, toes pointed straight ahead, knees bent so that one can barely see the edge of one's toes, hips tucked in to be in line with the heels, defensive stance 75% defense/25% offense.

this is how our horse stance look like
http://www.shaolinwolf.com/morechitrainharder/stances1.php
it seems that u do have fun working on your techniques!

 

[bcbernam777]

my teacher wants us to hold a staff while we do everything in class to develop a good foundation!
how long does it take to develop solid stances?
i try to do every while im in a perfect stance but still cannot hold myself in a stance for long. i have a lot of trouble staying in a low horse stance, or a forward stance (maybe known as bow-and-arrow stance)..
i wonder if you care about your stances, and how much of your time/effort you spend on them
and maybe if you have an advise for me... (default = practice more!)

I practice Wing Chun but the same principal holds true, developing your stance is of the utmost importance, by developing your stance you are developing your balance (essentially) and balance is the key to 1) stop from being put on your behind and 2) developing power from the groundup and therefore still retain a tremendous amount of enrergy during a fight and 3) if you adhere tosuch things it allows for the proper flow of energy (chi, adrenelane, whatever you want to call it) around the body because you have developed a proper posture. As for how long???? 6 months of solid training in the stance, and I mean solid training is a good start, it should mean that by that time you would have developed the fundamental body structure, and you shoudl be able to stand for extended periods in the stance, allow yourself some level of training that involves at least 30 - 60 minutes of stance training every day, also see if you can develop that same type of energy in your stance while you are out and about or even at work, I do, I mentally focus my COG down, untill I have that "rooted" feeling even when I am walking.

Hope this helps a little

 

[Navarre]

Your stances are much lower than ours. The stance I mentioned is the equivalent of sitting on a stool with our feet flat on the floor, except without the stool. All of my thoughts on the matter apply equally as well though.

Thanks for posting the link to the descriptive pics and information. I find it endlessly fascinating how different styles approach even the most basic of concepts such as stance. It's akin to the discussion of different religions, except I'd like to think we're much more tolerant and open-minded toward our differences.

Train seriously and have fun doing it.

 

[dmax999]

Mantis,

Those stances are the same as mine. They are standard for "Shaolin" or Norther Kung-Fu (Some examples: Mizong Lohan, Shaolin, Northern Eagle Claw). I was shocked when I first saw what they were, but you will get used to them in no time.

Our Stances (In Order) - Horse, Back, Bow and Arrow, Cat, Crane, Monkey, Scissor, Drop, Steal. Picture 1 is horse, Picture 2 and 3 are Bow and Arrow, Picture 4 is Scissor.

If you can hold a horse stance as seen in that picture for 1 minute, you are doing good for a beginner, it will probably start to hurt before the minute is up. After that it is really just practice to get the time up. I would say 5 minutes is getting good at holding horse stance.

Note, if you feel real pain in knees or ankles you are doing it wrong and get help with correcting the stance before continuing. If it is muscle soreness, work through it. Correct stances higher are far better then incorrect stances lower.

Also try to keep your knees pointing in the same direction as your feet. If your foot points one direction and knee above it points another, you will give yourself knee problems.
One more thing, Mizong Lohan Kung-Fu I believe will get into stances as low as you practice when in a real fight. The distinction of that style is usually doing odd things to confuse your opponent, which makes it difficult to get good at.

 

[mantis]

Mantis,

Those stances are the same as mine. They are standard for "Shaolin" or Norther Kung-Fu (Some examples: Mizong Lohan, Shaolin, Northern Eagle Claw). I was shocked when I first saw what they were, but you will get used to them in no time.

Our Stances (In Order) - Horse, Back, Bow and Arrow, Cat, Crane, Monkey, Scissor, Drop, Steal. Picture 1 is horse, Picture 2 and 3 are Bow and Arrow, Picture 4 is Scissor.

If you can hold a horse stance as seen in that picture for 1 minute, you are doing good for a beginner, it will probably start to hurt before the minute is up. After that it is really just practice to get the time up. I would say 5 minutes is getting good at holding horse stance.

Note, if you feel real pain in knees or ankles you are doing it wrong and get help with correcting the stance before continuing. If it is muscle soreness, work through it. Correct stances higher are far better then incorrect stances lower.

Also try to keep your knees pointing in the same direction as your feet. If your foot points one direction and knee above it points another, you will give yourself knee problems.
One more thing, Mizong Lohan Kung-Fu I believe will get into stances as low as you practice when in a real fight. The distinction of that style is usually doing odd things to confuse your opponent, which makes it difficult to get good at.

thanks for explaining.. this all sounds good
but let me ask you this since you sound experienced when it comes to stances.. in horse stance you have your feet on the same line, let's say you wanna switch from that to a bow-and-arrow stance, how can i move my back foot to keep balance without actually losing my balance. because when i switch stances i stay low all the way!
im having trouble keeping balance when i go from horse to bowNarrow, and i know in bow-and-arrow my back foot shouldnt be on the same line as my front one..

 

[dmax999]

Ahh, good question. The foot to be rear foot in bow and arrow turns on the ball (or toes) of the foot. The foot to be front foot turns on the heel. This gets them off of being in line with each other. You may need to play with it a bit to get it exact after doing that.

Not trying to shamelessly promote, but this link
http://espytv.com/eagleclaw.htm
you can order Grandmaster Leung Shum's first tape where he goes over the Eagle Claw versions of all the stances. They may be slightly different then yours (His crane stance puts the rised foot directly in front of the other knee instead of next to it for example). It also has the Kung Lek form on it, which is the first form taught in many northern kung-fu systems (Eagle Claw version of it of course)