Going from Full Contact to traditional.

[chrissyp]

Hi there, so most my martial arts experience comes from boxing and Muay Thai and MMA.

But for the past few years, iv'e taken up Shotokan Karate, which I absolutely love! I find it adds a lot my game, and I enjoy the traditional structure over say a boxing or MMA gym.

But from my understanding, i'm doing it "backwards'. A lot of guys start traditional then go on to do full contact styles.

I know there is no right or wrong way to do it, but I was wondering who else's done this, and what styles they switched to and from.

 

[Headhunter]

If you're enjoying it then who cares. I'm sure loads of people do it that way you just don't hear about it as much

 

[Martial D]

Hi there, so most my martial arts experience comes from boxing and Muay Thai and MMA.

But for the past few years, iv'e taken up Shotokan Karate, which I absolutely love! I find it adds a lot my game, and I enjoy the traditional structure over say a boxing or MMA gym.

But from my understanding, i'm doing it "backwards'. A lot of guys start traditional then go on to do full contact styles.

I know there is no right or wrong way to do it, but I was wondering who else's done this, and what styles they switched to and from.

There's no right or wrong progression, there is only progression. Are you progressing and improving?

Ate you better now than before you started karate?

No matter what style you do it will lend context to whatever other style you do, imo.

 

[chrissyp]

If you're enjoying it then who cares. I'm sure loads of people do it that way you just don't hear about it as much

I do enjoy it, but that wasn't the point of my post. I know loads do it, and I made this because I DO want to hear about it...

 

[chrissyp]

There's no right or wrong progression, there is only progression. Are you progressing and improving?

Ate you better now than before you started karate?

No matter what style you do it will lend context to whatever other style you do, imo.

I completely agree! i'm just curious to hear others stories!

 

[Headhunter]

I do enjoy it, but that wasn't the point of my post. I know loads do it, and I made this because I DO want to hear about it...

Um okay so what do you disagree with...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hi there, so most my martial arts experience comes from boxing and Muay Thai and MMA.

But for the past few years, iv'e taken up Shotokan Karate, which I absolutely love! I find it adds a lot my game, and I enjoy the traditional structure over say a boxing or MMA gym.

But from my understanding, i'm doing it "backwards'. A lot of guys start traditional then go on to do full contact styles.

I know there is no right or wrong way to do it, but I was wondering who else's done this, and what styles they switched to and from.

I'm unclear about this. Are you saying your school doesn't do full contact sparring, or that they don't do contact sparring at all?

Personally, I think full contact is overrated. And there are plenty of professional fighters (Cowboy Cerrone springs to mind as one example) that do not spar, or do not do full contact sparring.
But some degree of contact is certainly advisable, especially if you're relatively new. Our newest students spar with light contact. As they advance, the level of contact is allowed to go up. But it isn't really full contact. Personally, I don't see any reason to hurt my friends. I'll go with enough power that they know they've been hit with a strike that could have had significant power behind it. Maybe 75%, max, would be my estimate.
Zero contact sparring, in my opinion, is generally a waste of time and energy.

 

[chrissyp]

I'm unclear about this. Are you saying your school doesn't do full contact sparring, or that they don't do contact sparring at all?

Personally, I think full contact is overrated. And there are plenty of professional fighters (Cowboy Cerrone springs to mind as one example) that do not spar, or do not do full contact sparring.
But some degree of contact is certainly advisable, especially if you're relatively new. Our newest students spar with light contact. As they advance, the level of contact is allowed to go up. But it isn't really full contact. Personally, I don't see any reason to hurt my friends. I'll go with enough power that they know they've been hit with a strike that could have had significant power behind it. Maybe 75%, max, would be my estimate.
Zero contact sparring, in my opinion, is generally a waste of time and energy.

I'm saying I went from a full contact style (muay thai) to a minimum contact style (shotokan), where most people do that opposite, and i'm curious to hear how other people did the same.

 

[Headhunter]

I'm unclear about this. Are you saying your school doesn't do full contact sparring, or that they don't do contact sparring at all?

Personally, I think full contact is overrated. And there are plenty of professional fighters (Cowboy Cerrone springs to mind as one example) that do not spar, or do not do full contact sparring.
But some degree of contact is certainly advisable, especially if you're relatively new. Our newest students spar with light contact. As they advance, the level of contact is allowed to go up. But it isn't really full contact. Personally, I don't see any reason to hurt my friends. I'll go with enough power that they know they've been hit with a strike that could have had significant power behind it. Maybe 75%, max, would be my estimate.
Zero contact sparring, in my opinion, is generally a waste of time and energy.

Cerrone doesn't spar full contact?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm saying I went from a full contact style (muay thai) to a minimum contact style (shotokan), where most people do that opposite, and i'm curious to hear how other people did the same.

I suspect that as people get older, this becomes more common.
Personally, pads weren't used when I started training. Contact was, however. And we all got lots of bloody noses, black eyes, etc. I was glad when pads became common place. I was even more glad when I realized I didn't have to be a tough guy and go full out.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Cerrone doesn't spar full contact?

Not any more. He's mentioned this in several interviews, including one with Joe Rogan.
More importantly, he's told his mother that he doesn't do full contact sparring any more. And knowing her, I'd say that lying to her would be more dangerous than full contact sparring.

 

[Tez3]

I'm saying I went from a full contact style (muay thai) to a minimum contact style (shotokan), where most people do that opposite, and i'm curious to hear how other people did the same.

Shotokan isn't a minimum contact style though. Your instructors are the ones who have decided they do minimum contact. For this reason you may not find people who have done as you think you have.
Where I trained karate ( Wado Ryu) we used a lot of contact including take downs so when I went onto MMA and BJJ it wasn't hugely different. Shotokan has always been full contact at least here, some of the best fighters have come from it.

Having said that as has been said when people get older, progress through their chosen careers, have families and so on it's not good to turn up to work, school gates and in laws with black eyes etc. There's also less time to train so taking something that is less contact makes sense.

 

[Buka]

I suspect that as people get older, this becomes more common.
Personally, pads weren't used when I started training. Contact was, however. And we all got lots of bloody noses, black eyes, etc. I was glad when pads became common place. I was even more glad when I realized I didn't have to be a tough guy and go full out.

Wasn't that just the balls when pads came out? I hadn't been that pumped since I was a kid at Christmastime.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wasn't that just the balls when pads came out? I hadn't been that pumped since I was a kid at Christmastime.

It was!
Realistically, it's not like pads didn't exist. They just weren't mandatory, so we didn't use them.

 

[Buka]

I remember the first Safe-T Kick stuff that came out. The hands were like foam tin cans with a string to hold onto inside.

And the more you used them, especially the low cut feet, the more tape you had to use to keep them from falling apart. And then the brawls began. So much fun!

EDIT - And, yeah, that's me facing camera. Probably getting my ash kicked.

 

[Buka]

I do enjoy it, but that wasn't the point of my post. I know loads do it, and I made this because I DO want to hear about it...

I've been very fortunate in life, had all the opportunity to train full time in the Arts. I didn't go from one to another for the first fifteen years or so, just added because I had the time and opportunity.

Started in American Karate, added boxing, added some Kenpo, added kick boxing, added Tae-Kwon-Do.
My God, it was so much fun. The only drawback was the laundry. It was never ending.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I remember the first Safe-T Kick stuff that came out. The hands were like foam tin cans with a string to hold onto inside.

View attachment 21424

And the more you used them, especially the low cut feet, the more tape you had to use to keep them from falling apart. And then the brawls began. So much fun!

Duct Tape to the rescue!

 

[_Simon_]

G'day Chrissyp! That's awesome to hear you're loving where you are now!

Yeah actually I recently heard a saying that really resonated with me: "You have to go through the hard in order to get to the soft." It makes total sense to me, my background is Kyokushin karate (full contact karate) and I'm looking into moving into something not as intense, so it is definitely that way for me too. And I love the traditional side of things too .

It really depends on the person I guess as to the direction and progression they go in. I know I'm following my heart in this and going in a direction that suits me and where I am in life at the moment.

 

[chrissyp]

Shotokan isn't a minimum contact style though. Your instructors are the ones who have decided they do minimum contact. For this reason you may not find people who have done as you think you have.
Where I trained karate ( Wado Ryu) we used a lot of contact including take downs so when I went onto MMA and BJJ it wasn't hugely different. Shotokan has always been full contact at least here, some of the best fighters have come from it.

Having said that as has been said when people get older, progress through their chosen careers, have families and so on it's not good to turn up to work, school gates and in laws with black eyes etc. There's also less time to train so taking something that is less contact makes sense.

From what my instructor tells me about Karate in general, not just Shotokan, that in the 80's it was all full contact. I noticed you're an Englishman, there are a lot of great English Shotokan guys like Frank Brennan and Elwyn Hall who were 80's-90's Karateka from your country, who are absolutely amazing!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm saying I went from a full contact style (muay thai) to a minimum contact style (shotokan), where most people do that opposite, and i'm curious to hear how other people did the same.

I'm not sure that's so uncommon, Chrissy. I've met folks who made the same progression (mostly to care for their bodies as they aged and healed slower). I've also met folks who went from little/no contact to moderate contact, and a few who went from little/no contact to full contact. The most common is for folks to start at one of those and stay pretty close to it (except for the progression within a group, as Dirty Dog mentions).