Questions about Shotokan competitions: Then vs now

chrissyp

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As a guy who's done mostly Muay Thai, and switched to Shotokan, iv'e been interested in competing in a few tournaments.

While I don't care if it's full contact or not, I do miss full contact fighting, and I did see back in the 80's competition, it looked pretty full contact, specially in England. Here's an example
.

I would LOVE to fight a karate match with this much contact, by question is, in the united states, do they still do it like this?
 

dvcochran

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As a guy who's done mostly Muay Thai, and switched to Shotokan, iv'e been interested in competing in a few tournaments.

While I don't care if it's full contact or not, I do miss full contact fighting, and I did see back in the 80's competition, it looked pretty full contact, specially in England. Here's an example
.

I would LOVE to fight a karate match with this much contact, by question is, in the united states, do they still do it like this?
Man, that was a GREAT spinning hook kick at 2:15.
 

JR 137

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As a guy who's done mostly Muay Thai, and switched to Shotokan, iv'e been interested in competing in a few tournaments.

While I don't care if it's full contact or not, I do miss full contact fighting, and I did see back in the 80's competition, it looked pretty full contact, specially in England. Here's an example
.

I would LOVE to fight a karate match with this much contact, by question is, in the united states, do they still do it like this?
Thanks for posting that video. It was great.

Ive seen recent/current videos like that. I guess its like a full contact point fighting. I cant find them right now, but theyre out there. Im pretty sure that type of competition is still around, but its not too common. I think mostly Europe and Japan is where the videos Im thinking of were.
 

Danny T

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As a guy who's done mostly Muay Thai, and switched to Shotokan, iv'e been interested in competing in a few tournaments.

While I don't care if it's full contact or not, I do miss full contact fighting, and I did see back in the 80's competition, it looked pretty full contact, specially in England. Here's an example
.

I would LOVE to fight a karate match with this much contact, by question is, in the united states, do they still do it like this?
Check out Kyokushin tournaments. They still have strong full contact action.
 
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chrissyp

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Check out Kyokushin tournaments. They still have strong full contact action.
Kyokushin would be fun, but there is none even remotely close, and i would like to do face punches too, which i cant in kyokushin. Im still thinking ill do a point competition, i just would love to find one that's full contact
 

Grenadier

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Today's USA-NKF / USA Karate tournaments are emphasizing more vigorous contact, which in turn, changed the rules to allow for body shields.

They're not nearly as bulky as a hogu used in olympic-style Tae Kwon Do competitions.

Strikes to the head must still be controlled. Basically, face contact is restricted to adults, and even then, it's supposed to be a skin touch (no rocking of the opponent's head).
 

Buka

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As a guy who's done mostly Muay Thai, and switched to Shotokan, iv'e been interested in competing in a few tournaments.

While I don't care if it's full contact or not, I do miss full contact fighting, and I did see back in the 80's competition, it looked pretty full contact, specially in England. Here's an example
.

I would LOVE to fight a karate match with this much contact, by question is, in the united states, do they still do it like this?

I don't think so, but I haven't really been to one in a long while. But they started a complete pussification of Karate tournaments about twenty years ago. Apparently, they wanted to remove any semblance of what might be considered fighting. Didn't want to scare lil Johnny away.

That was quickly followed by outlawing the chance of anyone getting their feelings hurt.


My spies tell me tournaments will be staring contests by 2020. But it's going to be intense starring. This is Karate, after all.
 

pgsmith

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My spies tell me tournaments will be staring contests by 2020. But it's going to be intense starring. This is Karate, after all.
And screaming ... lots of screaming. Like they do in the weapons kata. :)
 

Buka

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And screaming ... lots of screaming. Like they do in the weapons kata. :)

I always kind of liked the screaming in weapons Kata. Very entertaining, keeps you awake as a judge, too.

I'd never give any consideration to screaming while scoring - but if someone is completely emotionally absent while doing their form, my scoring would probably reflect that.
 

Buka

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Just a side note, back in the tournament days of the seventies, Kyokushin guys always hit you extremely hard. But Shotokan guys, man, they tried to punch holes in you. I really believe that was their main goal. At lest in east coast tournaments. I fought too many of them to remember them all.

I still wince thinking about them.
 

Danny T

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Just a side note, back in the tournament days of the seventies, Kyokushin guys always hit you extremely hard. But Shotokan guys, man, they tried to punch holes in you. I really believe that was their main goal. At lest in east coast tournaments. I fought too many of them to remember them all.

I still wince thinking about them.
Yeah boy!! Ikken Hissatsu...it's a old concept but I think that's probably the number 1 takeaway I got from Shotokan training. Every strike was to finish the other guy. If I remember correctly it's means something along the lines of "one strike, one kill". More to our point of every strike thrown should be to finish the other guy.
 

Mitlov

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How much contact is involved in a light contact tournament varies a lot based on what the referees will tolerate. High end stuff can still be pretty intense nowadays (especially when looking at highlight reels like in the original post):


I think the rough and tumble "light contact" was a lot more common in the 80s than today, but I'm not sure it's gone.

I haven't done a lot of karate competition, but from what I've done, I've had light contact matches that I really do consider light contact, all the way up to a "light contact" match where my opponent dislocated my shoulder.
 

Mitlov

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ChrissyP: have got been following Karate Combat at all? It's a new full - contact karate league, primarily Shotokan folks.

 
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chrissyp

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ChrissyP: have got been following Karate Combat at all? It's a new full - contact karate league, primarily Shotokan folks.

I love it! Id love to do it! But i dont think i meet their qualifications. Id love to see other orgs rise up and start doing this on lower scale
 

CB Jones

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Our observations, from our travels and son competing:

1) USKA - United States Karate Alliance - We like this org the best so far and Jacob is a member. Originally, it was the US Karate Association started by Robert Trias and was the first karate association and was first org to host martial arts tournaments. Upon Trias passing away, it re-organized into the US Karate Alliance.

It is open to all styles and does not require membership to compete.

Point competition. For adults, rules allow medium to heavy contact to the body, medium contact to head and light contact to face. Basically, head contact is supposed to be controlled...if you draw blood or knock out your opponent you are DQ'd. Also groin contact is allowed. All strikes are scored 1 point as opposed to different strikes landed having different values. Matches are 5 point matches. Free Sparring with judges calling break when they see a point.....Head Gear, gloves, and Foot gear required.

Hosts tournaments in Louisiana, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California


2) PKC - Professional Karate Commission - Started by Glenn Keeney Looks to be modeled after the USKA with mostly the same rules and scoring.

Hosts Tournaments in Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania. Open to all styles and non-members.


3) USKK - United States Karate-Do Kai - Started by Phillip Koeppel, Also, modeled after USKA with the same rules and scoring.

Hosts Tournaments in Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and California. Also Co-Sanctions many tournaments with USKA.


4) WKF - World Karate Federation - Affiliated with the Olympics.

Styles recognized are Gj贖-ry贖, Shit-ry贖, Shotokan and Wad-ry贖.

Scoring is much different than the first 3 orgs- Punches are 1 point, kicks to body are 2 points, kicks to head are 3 points. Punches and kicks have to be thrown and brought back a certain way to score and competitors have to disengage when they have scored for the judges to score them. Amount of contact allowed is about the same as the first 3 orgs.

More restrictions in what kind of sparring gear is allowed and type of Gi worn than the first 3. Open to non-members but they require techniques used to be done in the styles recognized above.


5) NBL - National Blackbelt League - Sport Karate Org. Hosts tournaments nationwide. Rules seem to vary depending on area. Son only competed in a few of these and we didn't care for them as much. Lot of XMA influence.



From what we have seen...USKA, USKK, PKC, and WKF tends to be much more traditional in style. NBL tends to be more XMA.
 
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Mitlov

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I love it! Id love to do it! But i dont think i meet their qualifications. Id love to see other orgs rise up and start doing this on lower scale

Yeah, I'd like to see it catch on a bit more, so that there's regional and local competitions with this rule set. I suspect perhaps 90% of karateka wouldn't want to actually compete under that rule set--the light-contact point-stop rules are a lot more accessible to a lot more people--but (a) I think it's good for the option to exist for the other 10%, and (b) even if folks don't actually compete in it, I think having the option out there could have a potential beneficial impact on in-class drilling and training.
 

CB Jones

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Yeah, I'd like to see it catch on a bit more, so that there's regional and local competitions with this rule set. I suspect perhaps 90% of karateka wouldn't want to actually compete under that rule set--the light-contact point-stop rules are a lot more accessible to a lot more people--but (a) I think it's good for the option to exist for the other 10%, and (b) even if folks don't actually compete in it, I think having the option out there could have a potential beneficial impact on in-class drilling and training.

I really hope Karate Combat makes it. We have a few friends involved in it but also really enjoy watching it.

They have an event coming up in two weeks in New York that should be fun to watch.
 
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