From Okinawa to Korea

Gerry Seymour

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I like that idea. Give everyone who participates a T shirt, but save the trophies for the actual winners. If a very small number of people show up, then they should only give out a trophy or medal for the winner in that case. I took third in sparring, but there were only 3 of us sparring. I gave the medal to my wife and told her to give it out as a prize to one of her elementary school students.
Yeah, if I was organizing something like that, I'd want to include in the rules something about only a given proportion getting an award. If I show up and win silver because there are only two of us in the 45-55 category (or whatever "not really young anymore" age group), that's just silly. At the very least, no more than half of the participants in any group should be able to get a medal/trophy.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The tee shirt idea could work. The organizer of the tourney would have to be careful though. You can easily have more cost per Tee shirts than trophies. The artwork would have to be thoughtfully done so the left over shirts can be used for the next event. And then you get into the "how many of each size" question. It is always a mystery. But I do see more in the vein of advertising value.
The size and count question could be mitigated by having people request a specific size when they register, and only guaranteeing a shirt for advance registration. You'd still try to have them for folks who register same-day, but you'd be able to play it closer to the expected number. Working with the right vendor, you might even be able to be more cautious, if they can handle a last-minute reorder.

I don't think you'd want to re-use them the next event. There's something fun about having multiple t-shirts from a recurring event, and being able to point to which is which. I have almost no t-shirts anymore that didn't come from a mud run, and every time I put one on, it reminds me a bit of the day I got it.

With larger tournaments, this gets easier, as the percent waste is lower, and there are more people to give extras away to.
 

dvcochran

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The size and count question could be mitigated by having people request a specific size when they register, and only guaranteeing a shirt for advance registration. You'd still try to have them for folks who register same-day, but you'd be able to play it closer to the expected number. Working with the right vendor, you might even be able to be more cautious, if they can handle a last-minute reorder.

I don't think you'd want to re-use them the next event. There's something fun about having multiple t-shirts from a recurring event, and being able to point to which is which. I have almost no t-shirts anymore that didn't come from a mud run, and every time I put one on, it reminds me a bit of the day I got it.

With larger tournaments, this gets easier, as the percent waste is lower, and there are more people to give extras away to.
When you say "mud run" do you mean 4-wheeling? That is my jam.
 
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Michele123

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Your discussion on t-shirts is interesting because thats exactly what they do at our tournament. Anyone who registers by a given date gets a discount for the tournament plus a t-shirt in their size. It is fun to collect the t-shirts. I certainly enjoy them more than any medals.


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Bruce7

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Hello,
I studied Shutokan (a small offshoot of Shotokan) as a teen in the 90s and earned 1st Dan before moving off to college. I continued to train when home, but that was just short stints. Then in 2004 I married and we both went to graduate school. At that point I ceased training altogether.

Fast-forward to now. My daughter (almost 6) and I started Tae Kwan Do back in October. Because I have smaller children waiting for me at home, I cant stay and ask all the questions I want after each class. I was hoping maybe this thread could serve as a place for me to ask questions and just talk about the transition from Okinawa karate to Korean Tae Kwan Do.

First, Shutokan was heavily based on self-defense. We didnt study traditional weapons. We didnt compete. It was often discussed that Tae Kwan Do is flashy and impractical. Tae Kwan Do was all kicks and competition and the targets that would be most useful in a self-defense situation you are taught *not* to hit in Tae Kwan Do because of its tournament focus. Do you all find this true? Is Tae Kwan Do so focused on flash and competition that it is impractical? I like the idea of studying a martial art that I can continue if I move again. Tae Kwan Do seems to be in every town. But I dont want my daughter to have false confidence and not have the self-defense skills it is important for a woman to have.

Second, in karate it was very important to stay the same height in our katas (forms). In Tae Kwan Do, with walking stances verses long stances and everything else, it seems that bobbing is preferred. Why? Am I misunderstanding something? The goal with not bobbing in karate was so your opponent couldnt figure out what you were doing next.

Finally (for now), what is the first Tae Kwan Do form (name escapes me at the moment) so similar to the first Shutokan kata (Pinan Shodan)? I thought Tae Kwan Do wasnt considered a karate?

Ive been enjoying classes very much. Id forgotten how glorious it is to push yourself and train hard and become so in tune with your body. As kicking was always my favorite part of Shutokan, Im enjoying the plethora of kicks in Tae Kwan Do. Apparently I understand too much theory already as Im asking questions that are uncommon for a white belt to ask.

That leads me to another question. Rank order. Is this different between different Tae Kwan Do schools? At this one, you start as a white belt candidate, then have to learn a form and several basics before testing for your white belt. Next is orange followed by yellow. This seems strange to me as yellow is a lighter color than orange and in Shutokan yellow followed white then orange followed yellow. So a flip from the Tae Kwan Do here.

Anyhow, because of my background Im picking things up quickly. I tested for white belt in December and my instructor says he wants me to double test at the end of this month since I already know most of the material and whatnot. Im actually pretty excited about that. I just wish I had the time to practice that I did back when I was a teen. Being a mom to three little kids, plus two work from home jobs (university professor and database developer) in addition to all the typical household chores, leaves me little time to practice. Most of my practice time is visualizing while rocking the baby to sleep or cooking dinner or drifting off to sleep at night.

Anyhow, Thank you for reading. Im excited for this new martial arts journey! I just hope my old way of doing things doesnt trip me up too much!


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This is an excellent post. I enjoyed every ones comments.

Over the past 3 months I have gone to many Taekwondo schools and looked at many Taekwondo forms on the internet and I agree with your observations.

IMO Taekwondo has not changed for the better. I have not been to a Tang Soo Do school yet, but the way they do the forms on the internet
look old school. More like Shutokan.
 

JR 137

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I like that idea. Give everyone who participates a T shirt, but save the trophies for the actual winners. If a very small number of people show up, then they should only give out a trophy or medal for the winner in that case. I took third in sparring, but there were only 3 of us sparring. I gave the medal to my wife and told her to give it out as a prize to one of her elementary school students.
I didnt know whether to rate this one like, agree or funny. The last line had me laughing so I went with funny.

The first tournament I competed in had 2 people in my kata division. The other guy claimed to have started 3 weeks before the tournament. He said his kids were competing and they talked him into karate and going to the tournament. He said they should just give me the trophy because he has no clue what hes doing. I thought maybe he was trying to get into my head.

I was up first. I did pretty well but couldve done better. Then he was up. Sure enough, he wasnt lying. He didnt get through half of his kata before he stopped and bowed out.

They took a picture of us with our trophies. I wonder what he did with his trophy. When they asked us to take a picture, he said really? and shook his head with a priceless look on his face. I started laughing and said Im definitely laughing with you here and not at you. I wouldve loved to see that picture. They took pics of every group.

As for the t-shirts for tournament competitors, simple: have them put down their size on the registration sheet. Then give them what they put down when they check in. Too many/not enough problem solved. For that part anyway. And you can include the cost of the shirt into the registration fee.
 

mrt2

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This is an excellent post. I enjoyed every ones comments.

Over the past 3 months I have gone to many Taekwondo schools and looked at many Taekwondo forms on the internet and I agree with your observations.

IMO Taekwondo has not changed for the better. I have not been to a Tang Soo Do school yet, but the way they do the forms on the internet
look old school. More like Shutokan.
It is hard to say what is better, what is worse, and what is about the same. I came from a Tang Soo Do background and if I still lived in the area where I grew up, wouldn't hesitate to go back to Yi's Tang Soo Do in Cherry Hill, even though Grandmaster Yi no longer teaches there, I have no doubt he wouldn't allow them to use his name unless they were following his curriculum.

That said, I did look them up and there is a huge proliferation of belts now in TSD. When I trained in TSD, there were only 3 belt colors between white and black belt. There was orange, green, and red. It took me 8 months to make red belt, and another 9 months after that to make red belt, and I never made it beyond red belt in almost 3 years of training, and 3 years was the minimum time you needed to train before they allowed you to test for black belt.

But I live halfway across the country and there is almost no Tang Soo Do presence here. (I looked it up and there is one TSD school about 2 hours from here.) So I went with Tae Kwon Do. So what is the difference. Having to learn some new forms, which is not a bad thing, a lot more kids than adults, which is probably true of most traditional martial arts, and wearing a lot more protective gear when sparring, which is probably also a good thing.

If I were you, I wouldn't give up on TKD.
 
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mrt2

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I didnt know whether to rate this one like, agree or funny. The last line had me laughing so I went with funny.

The first tournament I competed in had 2 people in my kata division. The other guy claimed to have started 3 weeks before the tournament. He said his kids were competing and they talked him into karate and going to the tournament. He said they should just give me the trophy because he has no clue what hes doing. I thought maybe he was trying to get into my head.

I was up first. I did pretty well but couldve done better. Then he was up. Sure enough, he wasnt lying. He didnt get through half of his kata before he stopped and bowed out.

They took a picture of us with our trophies. I wonder what he did with his trophy. When they asked us to take a picture, he said really? and shook his head with a priceless look on his face. I started laughing and said Im definitely laughing with you here and not at you. I wouldve loved to see that picture. They took pics of every group.

As for the t-shirts for tournament competitors, simple: have them put down their size on the registration sheet. Then give them what they put down when they check in. Too many/not enough problem solved. For that part anyway. And you can include the cost of the shirt into the registration fee.
:) That is funny, but in a way sad. I don't want a trophy in kata if the pattern I perform isn't even good enough for a passing grade at a belt test. Same with breaking. Same with sparring.
 

dvcochran

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This is an excellent post. I enjoyed every ones comments.

Over the past 3 months I have gone to many Taekwondo schools and looked at many Taekwondo forms on the internet and I agree with your observations.

IMO Taekwondo has not changed for the better. I have not been to a Tang Soo Do school yet, but the way they do the forms on the internet
look old school. More like Shutokan.
Hang in there @Bruce7. I hope you keep auditing different schools. You are correct that a lot has changed, but I think there has been more change for the better. It is harder for us old guys to embrace change sometimes.
 
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Michele123

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Testing was yesterday.

The little kids actually did well. I was surprised (in a good way) how they actually all remembered their stuff. I was actually asking my instructor about some of the kids testing before the test and he told me that youd be surprised what kids remember when under pressure from a test. I didnt completely believe him but boy was I proven wrong. Even the fidgeting was at a minimum. It was pretty cool to see. My son even broke his board on his first try (and there was no practice for it unless you count the tournament last month). He was beaming!

After the test our instructor told me that my oldest is of the age and showing the maturing to move up into the youth class. Thats great for her but that means my two will be going to classes on different nights. That suddenly doubles the travel time and just time away from the rest of life. We will have to work it out but I asked if she can stay in the little kids class until after Easter at least. He was fine with that.

My test was somewhat disappointing. I did well enough to pass, but it wasnt up to my personally standards. I got winded *so* easily. I guess when I decided to continue through pregnancy I didnt picture it being any harder. At almost five months pregnant I thought Id still be light on my feet and all that since Ive been doing this from before pregnancy. Its so much more work and so discouraging. My mind actually blanked out when it was time to do my pattern and that has never happened before. Usually thats the easiest thing for me. I did get my mind back and on my second try (you know, where I actually did the pattern instead of looking blankly) I did it very well. But still. I *really* hoping part of the issue is from having been sick in bed for the three days prior to the test and still not being back up (I was maybe at 75%). But still, I wouldve expected adrenaline to cover for that. My drills were fine except that I got *so* wiped out and winded by them. My break was especially difficult but that is somewhat due to the fact that they couldnt decide what alternate break they wanted me to do ahead of time and I had nothing to prepare. I did manage to do it but it took more than one attempt this time. Just for my sake, I hope after the baby comes I can attempt the original break. I really wanted to try it but since it usually involves landing on your back and rolling, they wouldnt let me. My midwife wouldnt want me to either so I guess they are probably right.

On another note, I guess Im grateful that I can continue to train during pregnancy in my late-30s. It is certainly a different kind of challenge but it is still a challenge. I like to persevere through challenges. Ive got this weird desire to train right up until the day I give birth. Like how cool would it be to get home after training and just start labor then? Im hoping I can make it. I tend to wimp out in the summer heat, especially while pregnant.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. Sometimes I wish I had my younger body. It might handle pregnancy and training a bit more smoothly. :)


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Gerry Seymour

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Testing was yesterday.

The little kids actually did well. I was surprised (in a good way) how they actually all remembered their stuff. I was actually asking my instructor about some of the kids testing before the test and he told me that youd be surprised what kids remember when under pressure from a test. I didnt completely believe him but boy was I proven wrong. Even the fidgeting was at a minimum. It was pretty cool to see. My son even broke his board on his first try (and there was no practice for it unless you count the tournament last month). He was beaming!

After the test our instructor told me that my oldest is of the age and showing the maturing to move up into the youth class. Thats great for her but that means my two will be going to classes on different nights. That suddenly doubles the travel time and just time away from the rest of life. We will have to work it out but I asked if she can stay in the little kids class until after Easter at least. He was fine with that.

My test was somewhat disappointing. I did well enough to pass, but it wasnt up to my personally standards. I got winded *so* easily. I guess when I decided to continue through pregnancy I didnt picture it being any harder. At almost five months pregnant I thought Id still be light on my feet and all that since Ive been doing this from before pregnancy. Its so much more work and so discouraging. My mind actually blanked out when it was time to do my pattern and that has never happened before. Usually thats the easiest thing for me. I did get my mind back and on my second try (you know, where I actually did the pattern instead of looking blankly) I did it very well. But still. I *really* hoping part of the issue is from having been sick in bed for the three days prior to the test and still not being back up (I was maybe at 75%). But still, I wouldve expected adrenaline to cover for that. My drills were fine except that I got *so* wiped out and winded by them. My break was especially difficult but that is somewhat due to the fact that they couldnt decide what alternate break they wanted me to do ahead of time and I had nothing to prepare. I did manage to do it but it took more than one attempt this time. Just for my sake, I hope after the baby comes I can attempt the original break. I really wanted to try it but since it usually involves landing on your back and rolling, they wouldnt let me. My midwife wouldnt want me to either so I guess they are probably right.

On another note, I guess Im grateful that I can continue to train during pregnancy in my late-30s. It is certainly a different kind of challenge but it is still a challenge. I like to persevere through challenges. Ive got this weird desire to train right up until the day I give birth. Like how cool would it be to get home after training and just start labor then? Im hoping I can make it. I tend to wimp out in the summer heat, especially while pregnant.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. Sometimes I wish I had my younger body. It might handle pregnancy and training a bit more smoothly. :)


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Babies are jerks. They make everything harder. But they're so cute, we let them get away with it, even when we can't see how cute they are yet.

Sounds like you did a good job. Your body is under an unusual stress, and you'd been pretty sick (which also dramatically reduces your stamina), so getting through it and passing under those circumstances is a very nice achievement. Good effort, and good result!
 

dvcochran

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Testing was yesterday.

The little kids actually did well. I was surprised (in a good way) how they actually all remembered their stuff. I was actually asking my instructor about some of the kids testing before the test and he told me that youd be surprised what kids remember when under pressure from a test. I didnt completely believe him but boy was I proven wrong. Even the fidgeting was at a minimum. It was pretty cool to see. My son even broke his board on his first try (and there was no practice for it unless you count the tournament last month). He was beaming!

After the test our instructor told me that my oldest is of the age and showing the maturing to move up into the youth class. Thats great for her but that means my two will be going to classes on different nights. That suddenly doubles the travel time and just time away from the rest of life. We will have to work it out but I asked if she can stay in the little kids class until after Easter at least. He was fine with that.

My test was somewhat disappointing. I did well enough to pass, but it wasnt up to my personally standards. I got winded *so* easily. I guess when I decided to continue through pregnancy I didnt picture it being any harder. At almost five months pregnant I thought Id still be light on my feet and all that since Ive been doing this from before pregnancy. Its so much more work and so discouraging. My mind actually blanked out when it was time to do my pattern and that has never happened before. Usually thats the easiest thing for me. I did get my mind back and on my second try (you know, where I actually did the pattern instead of looking blankly) I did it very well. But still. I *really* hoping part of the issue is from having been sick in bed for the three days prior to the test and still not being back up (I was maybe at 75%). But still, I wouldve expected adrenaline to cover for that. My drills were fine except that I got *so* wiped out and winded by them. My break was especially difficult but that is somewhat due to the fact that they couldnt decide what alternate break they wanted me to do ahead of time and I had nothing to prepare. I did manage to do it but it took more than one attempt this time. Just for my sake, I hope after the baby comes I can attempt the original break. I really wanted to try it but since it usually involves landing on your back and rolling, they wouldnt let me. My midwife wouldnt want me to either so I guess they are probably right.

On another note, I guess Im grateful that I can continue to train during pregnancy in my late-30s. It is certainly a different kind of challenge but it is still a challenge. I like to persevere through challenges. Ive got this weird desire to train right up until the day I give birth. Like how cool would it be to get home after training and just start labor then? Im hoping I can make it. I tend to wimp out in the summer heat, especially while pregnant.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. Sometimes I wish I had my younger body. It might handle pregnancy and training a bit more smoothly. :)


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Congrats to you and your kids. I would not expect adrenaline to help you remember a pattern. That is more from muscle memory due to repetition. Given the circumstances I would not worry about it and just get back in the dojo/dojang and practice.
Working out up to the point you go into labor sounds incredible, as long as your water does not break in the middle of the workout floor. :):):)
 

_Simon_

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WELL DONE Michele, seriously you did your testing have been sick for the few days prior and fairly pregnant. Even though you felt you got winded more and struggled a bit, it sounds like you conquered a very unique challenge, I'd be even MORE proud of you for that ;)

And great to hear bout the kids, sounds like training has been of such immense benefit to them and their character already :)
 

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During WW2 Ginchin Funakosi the founder of Shotokan instructed and gave BB to the original founders of the TKD Kwans while they were college students in Japan... they brought this back to Korea...TKDs Lineage is Shotokan Karate...
 

mrt2

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During WW2 Ginchin Funakosi the founder of Shotokan instructed and gave BB to the original founders of the TKD Kwans while they were college students in Japan... they brought this back to Korea...TKDs Lineage is Shotokan Karate...
As a TKD practitioner and former Tang Soo Do practitioner, I pretty much agree. There is a lot of misinformation among TKD instructors about this, unfortunately. Way too much BS about hwarang warriors and other figures that, I suppose are important to the history of Korea, and Korean masters practicing ancient Korean Martial arts in secret, not enough about the Karate roots of almost all the founders of TKD.
 

gorilla2

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As a TKD practitioner and former Tang Soo Do practitioner, I pretty much agree. There is a lot of misinformation among TKD instructors about this, unfortunately. Way too much BS about hwarang warriors and other figures that, I suppose are important to the history of Korea, and Korean masters practicing ancient Korean Martial arts in secret, not enough about the Karate roots of almost all the founders of TKD.
If you are a Song Moo Kwan practitioner you are doing Shotokan...TKD is Karate with a mix of Kung Fu...I know that is an overly simplified but basically true...
 
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Earl Weiss

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During WW2 Ginchin Funakosi the founder of Shotokan instructed and gave BB to the original founders of the TKD Kwans while they were college students in Japan... they brought this back to Korea...TKDs Lineage is Shotokan Karate...
And Shotokan's lineage was Shorin, Shorei and perhaps other Okinwn Ryus, and Shroin lineage was Sholin, so the TJD libeage is then Shaolin. (FWIW General Choi mentions the Shorin / Shorei Lineage in his 1965 Book)
 

Gerry Seymour

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And Shotokan's lineage was Shorin, Shorei and perhaps other Okinwn Ryus, and Shroin lineage was Sholin, so the TJD libeage is then Shaolin. (FWIW General Choi mentions the Shorin / Shorei Lineage in his 1965 Book)
Earl, did you have a stroke midway through that post?
 

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