Flying? New "Security Theater" Policy in play in US.

[Bob Hubbard]

Electronic devices: cannot be brought into the cabin of the plane on international flights to the United States.
Patdowns: Required, for now.
Items on laps: No blankets, bags, suitcases, purses, etc on your lap during the last hour of flight. Your hands must be visible at all times.
No potty breaks: Passengers cannot get out of their seats for the last hour of a flight.

I feel safer all ready. Wonder what the penalty is for pissing on the floor?

New Plane Security Rules: No Electronics, No Getting Up Last Hour, 1 Bag [Business Insider]
TSA orders pat-down of all passengers during boarding [Elliott.org]
Full text of SD 1544-09-06 authorizing pat-downs, physical inspections [Elliott.org]
The New, Terrifying, No-Electronics US Flight Security Rules [Gizmodo]

 

[Makalakumu]

The first time a five year old had to pee in the last hour of flight, this rule is suddenly going to have an exception.

 

[xJOHNx]

or someone with incontinency...

 

[celtic_crippler]

Dog & pony show.

I'm not going to allow anyone to pat me down without probable cause, and simply flying abroad is not enough to illicit suspicion IMHO.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

What this translates to is "We can't realistically stop them at the door, so we're going to make you jump through hoops so it seems we know what we're doing and you can feel safe and secure in ignorance."

I can see a future headline "Police called over kids potty break, family charged with attempted terrorism over wet seat. Hazmat called.".

 

[CanuckMA]

Some how the train seems like a really good alternative to short haul flights.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Some how the train seems like a really good alternative to short haul flights.

I take the train whenever I can. Not always realistic, but when it works, it works well. If I can't take the train, I drive.

My MiL just had a nice Chrstmas in Cape Cod, MA. We dropped her off at the Amtrak in Rocky Mount, NC and picked her up there as well. She was met in NYC by family who drove her up to Cape Cod, but in the past, she has taken the train to Boston; both work.

Now from Detroit, where I live normally, the train is great if you're going to Chicago or points west. Going east, not so much. You can cross the border and take a Canadian train, I'm told, but I haven't tried that yet. Actually, I'd kind of like to try it at some point.

Amtrak can be very relaxing and cheap and comfortable. However, it takes a different mindset. Delays are not uncommon - and with only one set of tracks, a major delay is only a yahoo driving his car under the guardrail somewhere in front of your route away. You can't be on a strict timetable with the train, it won't work. Arriving 'on-time' means the same day you planned to arrive.

Still, I'm not dissing the train. I love it, personally. I always meet interesting people. And by that, I mean 'loony'. But it's fun. And security consists of showing your ID before getting on the train. No wands, no pat-downs, no this that or the other. At least for now.

I encourage people to give the train a try if they never have. It's a hoot, but it's not for everyone.

 

[jks9199]

Dog & pony show.

I'm not going to allow anyone to pat me down without probable cause, and simply flying abroad is not enough to illicit suspicion IMHO.

Then you won't be flying... They don't need probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion (which is all that's required for a pat down in the US). You aren't denied anything if you can't fly; flying on commercial air carriers is not any sort of right.

And trains? Right now, except for a few routes that are heavily traveled and well served, is much more expensive. I looked into travel for my wife & son from the DC area to Kansas City, MO, and it was on the order of $600 -- each way.

 

[Flea]

or someone with incontinency...

Or various disabilities. This won't last long.

Honestly, ever since Rigoberto Alpizar was gunned down like a dog a few years ago I'm terrified of flying. Not because of the flight itself, but because of the security measures. They're supposedly watching people for "odd" behaviors. This makes me nervous, which probably reflects in my body language. Oh, no! Now I'm acting like I'm nervous, so they probably think I'm up to something. The stakes have proven to be life and death, so of course the nervous mentality and body language threaten to become cyclical ... are they gonna shoot me yet? I really need to switch to Greyhound.

None of the TSA folk seem to notice that the last few terror attempts were made by perps from their seats. So what is this really about?

 

[MJS]

I feel safer all ready. Wonder what the penalty is for pissing on the floor?

New Plane Security Rules: No Electronics, No Getting Up Last Hour, 1 Bag [Business Insider]
TSA orders pat-down of all passengers during boarding [Elliott.org]
Full text of SD 1544-09-06 authorizing pat-downs, physical inspections [Elliott.org]
The New, Terrifying, No-Electronics US Flight Security Rules [Gizmodo]

I often laugh whenever new 'policies' come into play. Happens all the time in the workplace. It lasts for all of a few days, maybe a week or 2, and then right back to the same old way that it was before.

This is no different than the 'heightened' security that we saw after 9-11. Can't do (insert laundry list here) anymore. But wait....its been a few years since 9-11, nothings happened, so, ok, we'll go back to the relaxed state we once were in...until the next bad thing happens.

Rest his soul, but I'm sure the late, great George Carlin would have quite the routine worked up, with all these new 'changes' that're in place.

So, someone suddenly starts to feel ill on the flight and feels like they're gonna puke, crap their pants, whatever, and now they can't use the bathroom? Hey, I'm not saying to be relaxed and have no policies in place, but dammit, make sure they're resonable. I for one, would rather have someone, who is feeling sick, head to the bathroom to puke, rather than do it in the middle of the plane.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Then you won't be flying... They don't need probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion (which is all that's required for a pat down in the US). You aren't denied anything if you can't fly; flying on commercial air carriers is not any sort of right.

True that.

And trains? Right now, except for a few routes that are heavily traveled and well served, is much more expensive. I looked into travel for my wife & son from the DC area to Kansas City, MO, and it was on the order of $600 -- each way.

Nah, I think you maybe missed out. Amtrak is cheap.

I did a quick plot round-trip on Amtrack just now. Washington DC to KC, MO and back, round-trip, one adult, one child. $198 for two reserved coach seats. I just plugged in some future dates at random: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 to Thu, Jan 28, 2010. Of course, YMMV.

Now, if you want a room (sleeper), it adds $426 each way. However, I've done both. The room is nice, not necessary.

And, you can save a bunch using AAA, or if you qualify for other discounts.

In addition, I always recommend people take a visit to 'www.flyertalk.com' and check out the Amtrak 'codez' for discounts. For whatever reason, Amtrak does not publicize their discount codes. People find them out and share them, and some can save %30 or more, for real.

To get the best prices, you have to book well in advance, and check out prices on middle-of-the-week fares, which are usually better than weekends. You have to be flexible to save money, but it can be done.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I often laugh whenever new 'policies' come into play. Happens all the time in the workplace. It lasts for all of a few days, maybe a week or 2, and then right back to the same old way that it was before.

This is no different than the 'heightened' security that we saw after 9-11. Can't do (insert laundry list here) anymore. But wait....its been a few years since 9-11, nothings happened, so, ok, we'll go back to the relaxed state we once were in...until the next bad thing happens.

Rest his soul, but I'm sure the late, great George Carlin would have quite the routine worked up, with all these new 'changes' that're in place.

So, someone suddenly starts to feel ill on the flight and feels like they're gonna puke, crap their pants, whatever, and now they can't use the bathroom? Hey, I'm not saying to be relaxed and have no policies in place, but dammit, make sure they're resonable. I for one, would rather have someone, who is feeling sick, head to the bathroom to puke, rather than do it in the middle of the plane.

To be efficacious, security must actually do something and not be window-dressing.

However, setting that aside...

I was a road-warrior for seven years. I quit doing it in 2004, so I was well aware of how things were before and after 9/11, including the days when pimple-faced teenage national guardsmen clenched machine guns in airport terminals and eyed everyone as if we were going to burst out in ululations and summarily explode. I quit doing the road warrior gig in part because I no longer wanted to travel by air - it sucks and I hate it. I also got tired of having my property stolen from me at least once a month. And the TSA and airlines lie if they say it is not happening. (Yeah, I'm a little bitter, and I hate the TSA with an undying passion. I would not p*#@ on an agent if he was on fire. They are just thugs and juvenile bully-boys with badges. Law enforcement? They're a joke.)

Anyway, my thought way back when was that this was all going to end with passengers naked and shrink-wrapped, loaded on the plane like rolls of carpet. And I still think that's where we are headed.

I don't fly anymore. Not because I fear terrorists. Because I hate and distrust the airlines and the TSA. May they all rot in hell.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Then you won't be flying... They don't need probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion (which is all that's required for a pat down in the US). You aren't denied anything if you can't fly; flying on commercial air carriers is not any sort of right.

And trains? Right now, except for a few routes that are heavily traveled and well served, is much more expensive. I looked into travel for my wife & son from the DC area to Kansas City, MO, and it was on the order of $600 -- each way.

Exactly.

No skin off my back. Sucks for the air lines though...

And it is a right for me to be able to go about my business without being harassed as long as I'm not doing anything that would indicate that I'm doing something wrong.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[CanuckMA]

Electronic devices: cannot be brought into the cabin of the plane on international flights to the United States.

Canadian airlines may like this. If I was traveling from Europe to Canada and could not bring my laptop on board to do some work, I think I'd seriously consider a connection in Canada.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Canadian airlines may like this. If I was traveling from Europe to Canada and could not bring my laptop on board to do some work, I think I'd seriously consider a connection in Canada.

The other fun bit that they're not mentioning is that the airlines do not cover stolen electronic equipment from your checked luggage. Catch-22, you lose.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This is why I drove 3 days rather than fly for 12 hrs.

 

[jks9199]

Exactly.

No skin off my back. Sucks for the air lines though...

And it is a right for me to be able to go about my business without being harassed as long as I'm not doing anything that would indicate that I'm doing something wrong.

Not really the place for an extensive discussion of the Fourth Amendment -- but the real key word is "unreasonable." The relatively minimal invasion of your person, papers, and effects involved in security screening is considered reasonable in light of the risks and concerns involved. And, again, you are not being subjected to it so much as choosing to undergo the screening to be able to travel in the fashion you've chosen. Much like how some clubs will do a magnetometer and pat down of patrons as they enter because they've had too many problems... Don't want to be checked, no problem. Go somewhere else.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Not really the place for an extensive discussion of the Fourth Amendment -- but the real key word is "unreasonable." The relatively minimal invasion of your person, papers, and effects involved in security screening is considered reasonable in light of the risks and concerns involved. And, again, you are not being subjected to it so much as choosing to undergo the screening to be able to travel in the fashion you've chosen. Much like how some clubs will do a magnetometer and pat down of patrons as they enter because they've had too many problems... Don't want to be checked, no problem. Go somewhere else.

Hate to sound redundant but... exactly.

The air lines are going to suffer, not me. Perhaps the tourism industry as well...

The point is it's a dog and pony show and not really having any appreciable impact on detering terrorism.

So, a rational person is prompted to ask, "What's the real motive?"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

To look like they are doing something of course. To fool the easily controlled.

 

[Big Don]

After Richard Reid tried to blow up his shoe bomb, we have to take off our shoes, this guy's bomb was in his underwear...