Fitting FMA into MMA

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Ronin74

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:erg: And this is the reason I haven't been back lately.

I've checked out the first URCC event and was definitely not impressed. The highlight for me were the somewhat degrading comments made by the commentators regarding the fighters.

"From the looks of their torsos' they're clearly heavyweights"

I honestly could not restrain the laughter.

For the record, my original post was in regards to fitting what I've learned from FMA into the sport of MMA. Not what art was better, or some tired "self-defense vs. sports" debate.
 

Tez3

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Our ideas of what SD is are obviously different. It is common knowledge that NMM takes over in the fight/flight/hypervigilance phase of an altercation. As to your notion that an MMA competitor can turn on and off their adherence to rules in that state, it just doesn't happen. I have seen it time and time again, in real time.

In addition, how would an MMA competitor deal with guns, knives, blunt force weapons, multiple attackers, and so on. MMA gyms training competitors don't train these things. These are the self defense situations that are most common. I remember the Krav Maga guy on the Human Weapon shaking his head at Jason Chambers after a drill and saying "you can fight in the cage, but you don't know sh#t about self defense" and so it is with nearly all MMA competitors I have seen/been involved with.

Another member did a great job of explaining this in a thread a while back..I'll have to see if I can find it.




Thats why I asked. All rules limit something in favor for something else. All rules put something at and advantage over something else.

Again, can you post the rules? The foules etc?

Oh well as you know it all, pointless my saying anything isn't it. Who the hell is Jason Chambers anyway?

All the MMA fighters I know come from a TMA background, a lot of them are military, a couple police officers, a good many of them are doormen and some are travellers. None are professional fighters although they fight pro rules, none train full time MMA, I assume you are talking about the fulltime UFC fighters, I'm not. The money isn't here to allow anyone to be a full time fighter. The couple we have got, Bisping and Hardy (both from a TMA background), train and work in the States not here. Hence it's easy enough for fighters here to switch from MMA to no rules, when they need to and they often do. Many gyms here which teach MMA also train TMA and self defence, even Wolfslair does, it's what pays the bills.
A good many of us train with the British Combat Association and with people like Geoff Thompson, Iain Abernethy and Karl Tanswell. Karl is a well known MMA coach of pro fighters as well as being well known for his self defence teaching, his STAB courses and seminars are probably among the best in the world. MMA and TMA isn't very far apart here so we can do both MMA and self defence work as well as traditional martial arts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KAT5-OIxvA&feature=related

You are generalising from what you have seen and know nothing of what I have seen so you are drawing the wrong conclusions altogether.
In our club we teach MMA, TSD and a lot of self defence work, different classes but the same students attend them, this is the norm over here. MMA is the game we play to amuse ourselves to see if we can take the hit, think on our feet (or back) and generally enjoy what we do hopefuly winning fights on the way, self defence is what we do for real ( my instructor trains with Geoff Thompson among others and is well into SD) switching between the two is easy enough.
I'm guessing the Shamrocks of this world probably don't train self defence, they have a job to do as MMA fighters so perhaps it's true in their case that they can't 'do' self defence though I wouldn't want to bet my life on it but fighters I know here can and do.
 
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Tez3

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:erg: And this is the reason I haven't been back lately.

I've checked out the first URCC event and was definitely not impressed. The highlight for me were the somewhat degrading comments made by the commentators regarding the fighters.

"From the looks of their torsos' they're clearly heavyweights"

I honestly could not restrain the laughter.

For the record, my original post was in regards to fitting what I've learned from FMA into the sport of MMA. Not what art was better, or some tired "self-defense vs. sports" debate.

the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!
 
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Ronin74

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the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!
Sadly, this is the case.

I love martial arts, and if I had to make a life of it, my focus would definitely lean towards its combative applications. However, it's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy watching MMA. It is by far my favorite sport, and perhaps one of the few I'll take an interest in. I'm one of those guys that will fall asleep if I have to watch football, baseball, basketball, and pretty much most major/mainstream sports. However, if there's a Boxing, Kickboxing, or MMA fight on (especially if they're classic match-ups), I'll grab a seat to watch.

I agree with you Tez in that some folks feel that there has to be that 'higher purpose', and while I might agree that it applies to the spiritual aspects of practicing martial arts (and I'll admit that it's a big part of my life in the arts), there's no denying that some of us enjoy watching- or even participating- in a nice legal throw-down... lol.
 

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the self defence v sports argument always pops up simply because people can't accept MMA is a sport which we enjoy, it has to have a 'higher purpose' ie SD as we can't have people simply enjoying fighting lol!

Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking.

You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.

1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.

2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.

Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.
 

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Hello Ronnin74,

My encouragment to you is this: 1. The use of your blocks/perry techniques are important that is why you use them. The block/perry is to either damage the attackers atack and create an opening to finish him or to use leverage and guide him of balance to a position that you can again finish him. Both aspects are crucial to open your opponent to your counter attack.
2. I trust your fma is of good quality so you know that you don't just cut someone to cut them....right? These are weak/vulnerable point aka vital points that will affect the attacker in some way. with a knife you may cause peralysis or excessive bleeding or even the loss of use of that particular muscle/limb. WELL these same points if struck will cause various similar effects on the body.

Lastly you must have the same confidence and poise that you would have if you were using your knife/blade.

Ponder these and good luck to you!
 

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Could be a higher purpose.

Could be some folks really don't like the idea of groundfighting, but I think that's an easier jump for an FMAist to make. Many FMA styles have flows and locks akin to what is found in jujutsu. Add dumog or silat and you likely have some experience with the ground and maybe even defending against a shoot and other sorts of attacks found in the octagon.

FMA typically does not train defenses to specific attacks, instead we are trained on defending against the direction of the energy. If something is coming towards us, we do not want it to hit us. If its sharp, one hit can kill.

I think an FMAist that can defend themselves against a person with a knife in their hand can have a lot of tools to defend themselves against an attacker with nothing in their hands.
 

Tez3

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Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking.

You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.

1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.

2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.

Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.

If you chose to attack me, twist what I say and generally speak down to me I'll answer with what I like frankly.
The OP was how can you fit FMA into MMA but you have chosen to have a ramble on about SD and your experiences which is a non isssue.
 

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Opposite really. People simply can't accept that their sports is not sufficient for self defense, and that outside of the "cage" they may find it seriously lacking.

You are not sticking with the basic item we are discussing, the point I made in my original post, to which you responded. I mentioned two points.

1.) Yes the rules will favor one style over the another, as all rules limit somebody or something over something else. You refuse to discuss the rules, playing the martyr and insisting I said I know everything.

2.) I mentioned the weakness and risk of viewing MMA and training for competition as SD. You then mention people who do both, yet that isn't what I was ever speaking about, and its a non issue in this discussion.

Incidentally, I very much enjoy watching MMA.... although my patience with the UFC is running out. I can, however, watch for what it is, without arguing for something it isn't.

Flecked with emotion, I see? Vehemently against the SD aspects of MMA, you are?

Have you trained MMA? Probably not. And if you did, you probably didn't train for very long. You'll find SD application all over the place. Fight that losing battle, then say you like MMA, but the UFC is trying your patience? Get a grip, and stop, smell the roses instead of keeping your nose in the Sweaty Cup of MMA vs. SD.
 

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If you chose to attack me, twist what I say and generally speak down to me I'll answer with what I like frankly.
The OP was how can you fit FMA into MMA but you have chosen to have a ramble on about SD and your experiences which is a non isssue.


I chose to have a ramble? Wow. Actually, I posted an observation as to what I thought was interesting about the thread, and then I addressed the OP's question.

To which you responded:

Ok so who thinks that training for a sport is the same as training for a real life situation? I don't think anyone here does, I think you must have been misreading some posts.
How deep a knowledge do you have of the rules of MMA then that you can assert that they favour some styles over others?

And I simply answered your questions (which is more than I have been able to get you to do) any yet you take no responsibility for your part in the discussion, and say others are twisting your words? Lol. Have fun.
 

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Flecked with emotion, I see? Vehemently against the SD aspects of MMA, you are?

I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?
 

Tez3

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I recap the two points I made, which were completely ignored by Tez (and obviously will continue to be) and you see an emotional response? Then come out with things like "smell the roses" lol. I guess there was no emotion in any thing Tez said (may be difficult to find, amongst all the contradictions) or in anything you have said in this thread?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

My dear boy, only you find contradictions, that's because you misunderstood the posts in the first place, still never mind. It was amusing.

I love it when a man starts posting that discussions are 'emotional', it means he doesn't like women answering him back ROFL.

Attack away, it's always fun to clash swords on the internet, it's not real you know. :jediduel:


Answer you? I suppose I could but where's the fun in that when you are enjoying yourself making my answers up for yourself? Of course if anyone wants the rules for our MMA they could always go on the P&G website but then you haven't been here long enough to know that or for that matter any of us before you started telling how things are.Troll much?
 

chris arena

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Here is my observation.

A person puts a technical discussion up on the site, even shows a brief video of what he is doing and you get 3, maybe 4 intelligent replies. Some are kudo's and some are corrections. Even better yet, they send back a detail of thier view on the subject and, maybe even a video showing thier efforts to better themselves and/or see if they are on the right track!
These people are technitions and tradesmen. The do and show thier art. They get better with age

Then, there are those who pontificate all of thier expert views and go on and on defending thier stances on this subject. But... Where is thier evidence, where are thier video's. In short, let's see what they can do...
Sadly, you never see anything. Just words, and that is because they are NOT technitians or tradesmen. They are philosophers. However, it is these posts that go on and on and on......

Which do you want to be?... Hint. "It's easier to be a philosopher".
 

Tez3

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Here is my observation.

A person puts a technical discussion up on the site, even shows a brief video of what he is doing and you get 3, maybe 4 intelligent replies. Some are kudo's and some are corrections. Even better yet, they send back a detail of thier view on the subject and, maybe even a video showing thier efforts to better themselves and/or see if they are on the right track!
These people are technitions and tradesmen. The do and show thier art. They get better with age

Then, there are those who pontificate all of thier expert views and go on and on defending thier stances on this subject. But... Where is thier evidence, where are thier video's. In short, let's see what they can do...
Sadly, you never see anything. Just words, and that is because they are NOT technitians or tradesmen. They are philosophers. However, it is these posts that go on and on and on......

Which do you want to be?... Hint. "It's easier to be a philosopher".

Oh well if it's any help to you my video of me reffing is posted on MT lol!
 

JKD143

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

My dear boy, only you find contradictions, that's because you misunderstood the posts in the first place, still never mind. It was amusing.

I love it when a man starts posting that discussions are 'emotional', it means he doesn't like women answering him back ROFL.

Attack away, it's always fun to clash swords on the internet, it's not real you know. :jediduel:


Answer you? I suppose I could but where's the fun in that when you are enjoying yourself making my answers up for yourself? Of course if anyone wants the rules for our MMA they could always go on the P&G website but then you haven't been here long enough to know that or for that matter any of us before you started telling how things are.Troll much?

Oh, your posts are full of contradictions. Emotion was mentioned by your friend... I just thought it was funny...but you don't read the posts well enough to see who posted what, do you? That's fine. You address my post, start the questioning, cant handle the answers, point the finger, pretend its "someone else" who comes trolling, refuse to engage n the conversation you say you want to have, condensed... oh, never mind.
 

K831

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Oh, your posts are full of contradictions. Emotion was mentioned by your friend... I just thought it was funny...but you don't read the posts well enough to see who posted what, do you? That's fine. You address my post, start the questioning, cant handle the answers, point the finger, pretend its "someone else" who comes trolling, refuse to engage n the conversation you say you want to have, condensed... oh, never mind.

Ha! Did I not call it 100%?? It happened just like I said it would...word for word lol

All you will get is ad hominem, antecedent denial, non sequiturs and so on.
 

JKD143

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Ha! Did I not call it 100%?? It happened just like I said it would...word for word lol

All you will get is ad hominem, antecedent denial, non sequiturs and so on.

Yes you did...right down to the thanking. Ha! You've been here longer than I have.
 

Tez3

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So who do you thinks actually cares?
Not I, thats for sure ROFL!

Chaps, you really need to understand that your amusement value is quite high and your understanding is quite low but there you go. It must get quite cold up there on your ivory towers, hope you wrap up warm.

The people I respect understand my posts, you don't so... 'am I bovvered', nah!
Have a nice day and better luck on posting on other threads where people aren't as easily amused as I!
 
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Ronin74

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Hello Ronnin74,

My encouragment to you is this: 1. The use of your blocks/perry techniques are important that is why you use them. The block/perry is to either damage the attackers atack and create an opening to finish him or to use leverage and guide him of balance to a position that you can again finish him. Both aspects are crucial to open your opponent to your counter attack.
2. I trust your fma is of good quality so you know that you don't just cut someone to cut them....right? These are weak/vulnerable point aka vital points that will affect the attacker in some way. with a knife you may cause peralysis or excessive bleeding or even the loss of use of that particular muscle/limb. WELL these same points if struck will cause various similar effects on the body.

Lastly you must have the same confidence and poise that you would have if you were using your knife/blade.

Ponder these and good luck to you!
Ahhhh... gotcha.
 

ap Oweyn

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I think the bottom line is this: The MMA guys I've known are an open minded lot. They do not, however, take much on faith. Show them that something has utility, and they'll consider it carefully. Tell them that they should do X, Y, and Z because centuries ago it was battlefield tested, style X is specifically designed to contend with range Y, or whatever other overly analytical rationale we tend to get in online discussions, and you're likely to be met with a fair amount of cynicism.

Basically, it's going to come down to someone being willing to step up and try using some of these things in the ring. If someone responded to a bull rush with a reverse triangle footwork that neatly put them behind the other guy and in terrific position for a finishing move, then the MMA community would likely start saying "huh, you know there may be something there." If someone started using the oblique kick (or sipa) to snuff their opponent's kicking or forward blitzes, there might well be interest.

But the flaw with most "why don't UFC fighters use ____ " is that they firmly place the onus upon the MMA community to recognize the absolute brilliance of whatever your style of choice is and then gratefully seek out instruction in it. To me, that reasoning is backward. If recognition by the MMA community is important (and it's up to each of us to decide whether it is), then someone needs to show them what we have to offer. In a venue that's compelling and repeatable.


Stuart
 

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