Fitness/conditioning
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satans.barber
Master Black Belt
I try to lift pints at least a couple of times a week to keep my arms in shape.
Ian.
Ian.
B
Black Bear
Guest
Dude, when normal human beings (as opposed to martial artists) say conditioning, they usually mean cardio, not "hardening". (Personally, I think that standing across from a guy and banging your forearms together to get tougher is preposterous. I even used to tap chopsticks against my shin and ulna for several minutes a day, because some guy who happened to be a good wing chun fighter swore by it. Talk about a waste of time! If you're training alive with good contact, you'll callus and develop tone in the right places anyway, and it's happening while you're developing genuine skills.) I think that's what the PM is trying to say.
For weights, martial artists mostly know what to do. Full-body movements focusing on the large muscle groups, Three sets of ten, as much as you can lift. Deadlifts, clean-and-jerks, presses, etc. Isometrics I tried, and didn't find it did much for me. Plyometrics I never really got into, but some people tell me it's awesome.
For cardio:
http://www.geocities.com/rutgerseskrima/art_prison.html
http://crossfit.com
http://www.straightblastgym.com/page.asp?section=coach&parent=Press&session=
For weights, martial artists mostly know what to do. Full-body movements focusing on the large muscle groups, Three sets of ten, as much as you can lift. Deadlifts, clean-and-jerks, presses, etc. Isometrics I tried, and didn't find it did much for me. Plyometrics I never really got into, but some people tell me it's awesome.
For cardio:
http://www.geocities.com/rutgerseskrima/art_prison.html
http://crossfit.com
http://www.straightblastgym.com/page.asp?section=coach&parent=Press&session=
"Dude, when normal human beings (as opposed to martial artists) say conditioning, they usually mean cardio, not "hardening". "
Black Bear if assuming that I am a normal human being
... but he is right about my use of conditioning. Physical conditioning/exercise in general.
I guess the other way to phrase this is
Do you exercise for the type of 'fight' that you are preparing for/expecting?
Say you are a boxer/kick boxer/MMA fighter type. LOTS of cardio/LOTS of local and whole body endurance conditioning/LOTS of quickness and agility training, Appropriate amounts of plyometric/explosive power training. Here, weight classes may be a factor as well, so diet and other mass enhancing/limiting considerations will come into play. Regardless of wt. limits though, low body fat %'s are preferable.
Say you are a general self defense artist type. General fitness/strength base, some cardio, LOTS of quickness and agility and local/whole body endurance, LOTS of plyometric/explosive power training.... or what ever.
If you don't know which category the exercises/routines you use fit into, just outline the routine.... some overlap depending on the purpose and sequencing.
Paul M.
Black Bear if assuming that I am a normal human being
... but he is right about my use of conditioning. Physical conditioning/exercise in general.I guess the other way to phrase this is
Do you exercise for the type of 'fight' that you are preparing for/expecting?
Say you are a boxer/kick boxer/MMA fighter type. LOTS of cardio/LOTS of local and whole body endurance conditioning/LOTS of quickness and agility training, Appropriate amounts of plyometric/explosive power training. Here, weight classes may be a factor as well, so diet and other mass enhancing/limiting considerations will come into play. Regardless of wt. limits though, low body fat %'s are preferable.
Say you are a general self defense artist type. General fitness/strength base, some cardio, LOTS of quickness and agility and local/whole body endurance, LOTS of plyometric/explosive power training.... or what ever.
If you don't know which category the exercises/routines you use fit into, just outline the routine.... some overlap depending on the purpose and sequencing.
Paul M.
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Black Bear
Guest
Mr. Prime Minister, I believe the conditioning he's talking about is that "toughening" or "hardening" stuff that some TMAists do, just beating themselves against each other or some wood to make themselves "harder", and then perhaps they rub some dit da jow on the area afterward. As opposed to conditioning athletically. The comparison with masturbation is deliberate. Like masturbation, it misses the point.
NOTE: Everything you have just read is FALSE. No one believes it, not even the person who wrote it. Even if it did have any truth to it, it obviously doesn't apply to YOU because YOU do it under the supervision of a superguru who had the method handed down from generations of quantum monks. So don't tell me why I'm wrong. Just go on beating it. I'll stand WAY over here.
For myself, burpees, situps, shrimps, bridges, squats, etc. alternated with my weights. Cycling in the summer, more for enjoyment of nature and transportation than for conditioning.
NOTE: Everything you have just read is FALSE. No one believes it, not even the person who wrote it. Even if it did have any truth to it, it obviously doesn't apply to YOU because YOU do it under the supervision of a superguru who had the method handed down from generations of quantum monks. So don't tell me why I'm wrong. Just go on beating it. I'll stand WAY over here.
For myself, burpees, situps, shrimps, bridges, squats, etc. alternated with my weights. Cycling in the summer, more for enjoyment of nature and transportation than for conditioning.
B
Black Bear
Guest
The best routine is to change up your routine. Your body adjusts to the demands placed on it. You want it to keep adapting.
LOL, its funny what some right off as useless because of lack of understanding. Your mistake is in the use of, "As opposed to...". Iron body is done in accordance with, not as opposed to "real athletic" training. Also, saying its TMAist that use it is a big mistake, in fact nowdays its mostly mma guys who use such techniques.Black Bear said:
In answering the original question, mostly bag room workouts with lots of running. Heavy, heavy cardio and lots of leg work. Jump rope, running, push-ups, pull-ups, ect.. I use mostly plyometric or body weight excersisies. The little weights I do use are low weight high rep for building strength not mass.
7sm
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Black Bear
Guest
Dood, I suspect that you know perfectly well what I mean. And yes indeed there are MMAers who will kick-tap wood as opposed to drilling a heavy bag, or have people drop medicine balls on their abs... but the smart ones don't, not anymore.
I'm not sure I do know what you mean if its different from what you posted. Once again your using "as opposed to" which is wrong in iron body training. If your going to practice iron shin, you must also drill shin kicks on the bags. Its a must. I won't get into the biology of iron body training but it is important if fighting full contact, and extremely usefull in any situation. It is not harmful to the body if done correctly and can increase your advantage in a fight tremendously. That said, most is done incorrectly so therefore alot of it is harmful.Black Bear said:
Its not that I have a problem with your belief of iron body, its the use of obviously superior language such as "the smart ones don't" implying people who train IB are not smart. The thread is about outside training and iron body is a valid source of training outside class for many MAist.
7sm
B
Black Bear
Guest
Dood, "as opposed to" should not be taken to mean that the sorts of training are mutually exclusive, only that they can be distinguished one from another. A guy who does one may well be doing the other, but they are not the same thing. It is, so to speak, an OTHER thing. When you say that IB is done "in accordance with athletic training"--which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, semantically, but I'm thinking that you mean "in conjunction with"--then you are saying that they are not the same thing. They're done concurrently, and each regimen includes a dosage of the other, but they're not denotatively the same thing. Which is exactly what I was saying.
I don't see what's so complicated about this.
What exactly are you taking issue with--my opinions on IB? My refusal to conflate IB with other usages of the word "conditioning"? My view that the more cutting-edge MMAers do not do IB? What exactly?
I don't see what's so complicated about this.
What exactly are you taking issue with--my opinions on IB? My refusal to conflate IB with other usages of the word "conditioning"? My view that the more cutting-edge MMAers do not do IB? What exactly?
Black Bear said:
If you would like to discuss (debate :uhyeah: ) Iron Body traiing I would love to, but probably would be best on another thread.7starmantis said:
7sm
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Black Bear
Guest
Well I obviously know what you said, but certain of your remarks seemed to me to suggest otherwise: that you have a problem with me making a distinction between the various forms of conditioning.
I don't know who you are involved with in the MMA world, but there is a good consensus among top gyms that "tolerance" conditioning is best attained through direct immersion in the thing that you're building it for. ie. whatever increased callussing or bone calcification occurs when you're kicking or beating down a heavy bag or live opponent (as well as absorbing hits from a live opponent) is really all you need. In Hong Kong, IB guys used to show their stuff on the street (smashing bottles, etc.) so people would throw money at them. If you want to be a circus freak, IB's pretty darned important. But if you want to be a fighter, then know that many of the most successful fighters absolutely forswear the stuff. I don't know how into MMA you are, are you basing your remarks on the practices of a few gyms where you happen to know people personally?
I don't know who you are involved with in the MMA world, but there is a good consensus among top gyms that "tolerance" conditioning is best attained through direct immersion in the thing that you're building it for. ie. whatever increased callussing or bone calcification occurs when you're kicking or beating down a heavy bag or live opponent (as well as absorbing hits from a live opponent) is really all you need. In Hong Kong, IB guys used to show their stuff on the street (smashing bottles, etc.) so people would throw money at them. If you want to be a circus freak, IB's pretty darned important. But if you want to be a fighter, then know that many of the most successful fighters absolutely forswear the stuff. I don't know how into MMA you are, are you basing your remarks on the practices of a few gyms where you happen to know people personally?
I'd love to continue this conversation.
Mods could we cut this thread a few posts up (maybe post 8?) and start a new one with it?
Probably be better on another thread.
7sm
Mods could we cut this thread a few posts up (maybe post 8?) and start a new one with it?
Probably be better on another thread.
7sm
Well in my classes we have done the occasional conditioning of knuckles and fingertips. On my own I like to practice my techniques and even try to learn some flashy kicks off the net and Martial Arts films! I have also taught myself another kick we don't train in in my Kung Fu style! I also like to go to the gym to lift weights and I have also been trying to strengthen my forearms for doing one inch punches and blocks!
Well, to get this back on the fitness aspect of the training here is what I am doing right now. I am a strong believer in periodization (changing the routine from work out to work out/month to month... to continuously 'shock' the body)
I am playing hockey in a league right now, so my work out is sort of scheduled around that to avoid over training, but for the self defense/martial focus of my training/fitness program the games are part of the fitness
Thurs:Game day usually, 90-2:00 shifts of defense with usually one equal interval of rest for three 12 minute periods of play. We don't get the attendance we should, plus we are really bad right now, so the work to rest interval as well as the shift length is far from ideal for game play, but it has benefits for my overall fitness.
Fri: Rest or light cardio to help with recovery
Sat: Functional, multiple joint gross motor exercises (squats, cleans, push ups, romanian dead lifts), Core exercises (fitball sit ups,hyperextensions, russion twists, reverse crunches), and some isolation exercises (tricep extensions,bicep curls, lat raises...) Wrist curls
Quickness and agility (jump rope with various footwork patterns) 30 secs - 1 min work, equal or same plus 1/2 of rest at least 5 reps of cycle.
Sun: Rest
Mon: Functional exercises (Squats,cleans,...) fewer than on SAT because of the power/plyometric training (tuck jumps, lateral jumps over stick/low obstacle, jump squats up stairs, single jump steps up stairs, chest slap push ups, mule kicks....)
Tues: Cardio/interval/speed training 1:5 ratio of work to recovery (sprint for 10, jog for 50... or some other times within the same ratio) 5- 10 reps, or 1:3 work to recovery (sprint 30 secs to 1.5 minutes jog) for 3 - 6 reps depending on mood or need.
Wed: light cardio or rest, LOTS of stretching (regular warm up/cool down stretching every other day)
Thurs: back at it.
Part of my purpose/goal with the work out is to gain/maintain the fit to fight level, but by focusing on 'hockey/game' prep I have short term goals that keep me motivated, plus the games can be assesments of my endurance/strength/agility because I will do better if I train better. This athletic base will translate to better prep for any potential 'fight' that becomes unavoidable.
Paul M.
I am playing hockey in a league right now, so my work out is sort of scheduled around that to avoid over training, but for the self defense/martial focus of my training/fitness program the games are part of the fitness
Thurs:Game day usually, 90-2:00 shifts of defense with usually one equal interval of rest for three 12 minute periods of play. We don't get the attendance we should, plus we are really bad right now, so the work to rest interval as well as the shift length is far from ideal for game play, but it has benefits for my overall fitness.
Fri: Rest or light cardio to help with recovery
Sat: Functional, multiple joint gross motor exercises (squats, cleans, push ups, romanian dead lifts), Core exercises (fitball sit ups,hyperextensions, russion twists, reverse crunches), and some isolation exercises (tricep extensions,bicep curls, lat raises...) Wrist curls
Quickness and agility (jump rope with various footwork patterns) 30 secs - 1 min work, equal or same plus 1/2 of rest at least 5 reps of cycle.
Sun: Rest
Mon: Functional exercises (Squats,cleans,...) fewer than on SAT because of the power/plyometric training (tuck jumps, lateral jumps over stick/low obstacle, jump squats up stairs, single jump steps up stairs, chest slap push ups, mule kicks....)
Tues: Cardio/interval/speed training 1:5 ratio of work to recovery (sprint for 10, jog for 50... or some other times within the same ratio) 5- 10 reps, or 1:3 work to recovery (sprint 30 secs to 1.5 minutes jog) for 3 - 6 reps depending on mood or need.
Wed: light cardio or rest, LOTS of stretching (regular warm up/cool down stretching every other day)
Thurs: back at it.
Part of my purpose/goal with the work out is to gain/maintain the fit to fight level, but by focusing on 'hockey/game' prep I have short term goals that keep me motivated, plus the games can be assesments of my endurance/strength/agility because I will do better if I train better. This athletic base will translate to better prep for any potential 'fight' that becomes unavoidable.
Paul M.
Sorry, the game day thing is suppose to be 90 seconds to 2:00 minute shifts of play.
Also, my routine warm up is MA techniques at moderate pace to get up a mild core temp increase and prep for intensity later. Some of the quickness and agility training is combining hockey skills with speed goals, so I guess this would be sport specific - for variety I through in speed drill MA techniques/forms/patterns.
Paul M
Also, my routine warm up is MA techniques at moderate pace to get up a mild core temp increase and prep for intensity later. Some of the quickness and agility training is combining hockey skills with speed goals, so I guess this would be sport specific - for variety I through in speed drill MA techniques/forms/patterns.
Paul M
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