FEMA is not a first responder

[hardheadjarhead]

I love the part that the President was 1,000 miles away when Brownie resigned. And the President, apparently, had no knowledge that Brownie resigned, because he was to busy, get this, working.

Poor guy. He had to cut his vacation short by two days because of Katrina. He still managed to set the record for the most vacation days taken by any President...and with three years to go.

Lazy bastard.


Regards,


Steve

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Now I just KNOW TGace is going to love this:

The Canadian Mounties provided aid three days faster than our own government.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0909katrina-nursing-home09-ON.html

Pretty heartbreaking story otherwise. 31 elderly patients left to drown when the storm hit.



Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

http://www.fema.gov/library/fff02.shtm

Some things FEMA DOES NOT do:

Physically rescue people or serve as "first-responders" in a disaster – that is the responsibility of local and state police, fire and emergency personnel.

Building dams or levees or activating sand-bagging activities – generally the responsibility of local/state officials and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Taking "charge" of recovery effort -- FEMA works jointly with state and local officials.

Running temporary shelters or disaster feeding stations – generally the responsibility of such organizations at the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army.

Making weather predictions, fly into hurricanes or predict when rivers will surpass flood stage – generally the responsibility of the National Weather Service.

Ordering evacuations of communities due to natural disaster – generally the responsibility of state and local officials.

Setting building standards or setting zoning regulations – generally the responsibility of local and state official, with suggestions from FEMA.

Calling out the National Guard – generally a state responsibility.

 

[Tgace]

:shrug:

 

[Marginal]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

Hmm, but it's the Red Cross' job to set up shelters and deliver food you say?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090200670_2.html

Food drops were stalled awaiting FEMA approval? But they have nothing to do with that!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/06/katrina/main817893.shtml

Was FEMA simply weakened that severely from one administration to the next?

 

[michaeledward]

Some things FEMA DOES NOT do:

http://movies.go.com/movies/movie?name=xfilesthe_1998&genre=scifi&studio=TBA

Submitted for your viewing pleasure .... and as further ammunition against us tin-foil hat crowd.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, I'm happy to know that Brown WAS sent packing. He resigned.

 

[7starmantis]

I guess every state can't have a Pataki and a Giuliani to get things done when disaster strikes.

7sm

 

[shesulsa]

I'm wondering if anyone else saw the Frontline expose on PBS this evening?

Key points were addressed such as those buses in the parking lot (couldn't get drivers), City and state didn't ask for help (Mayor asked for specifics, Governor asked for anything and everything, troops, supplies, aide), FEMA said, "we got it" but was late.

One general provided documentation of a listing FROM FEMA of the requests received which list included all the above and more and STILL no help.

Comments?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm wondering if anyone else saw the Frontline expose on PBS this evening?

Key points were addressed such as those buses in the parking lot (couldn't get drivers), City and state didn't ask for help (Mayor asked for specifics, Governor asked for anything and everything, troops, supplies, aide), FEMA said, "we got it" but was late.

One general provided documentation of a listing FROM FEMA of the requests received which list included all the above and more and STILL no help.

Comments?

I guess, in a crisis, we still can only drive a bus if we have a CDL? Buses aren't that hard to drive. Put key in ignition, push in clutch, shift gears, apply accelerator and keep it between the ditches.

Claiming we can't find drivers seems an awful lot like BS to me.

 

[sgtmac_46]

http://movies.go.com/movies/movie?name=xfilesthe_1998&genre=scifi&studio=TBA

Submitted for your viewing pleasure .... and as further ammunition against us tin-foil hat crowd.

If FEMA wasn't so busy with their vast conspiracies to organize the alien invasion that's coming, they would have been in New Orleans on time. :erg:

 

[Phoenix44]

It's not just New Orleans. Hurricane Katrina affected Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and parts of Florida. Plus, it affected other states where the evacuees were accepted. Seems to me that it called for an organized federal response.

First responder? No...the local paramedic is a first responder, but by itself, insufficient for the magnitude of this emergency. The "FEMA is not a first responder" argument to excuse the inadequacy of Michael Brown and FEMA in the Katrina emergency is a non-issue.

 

[shesulsa]

I guess, in a crisis, we still can only drive a bus if we have a CDL?

Ah ... no. From what I understood (though I did not see every second of the show), it was a matter of finding people with a pulse willing to leave their families and homes or stick it out to drive the damn things.

Seems to me that it called for an organized federal response.

Yes it did which is why FEMA was organized in the first place. Jimmy Carter was pushed to organized Federal help after a series of disasters in the 70's exposed the lack of an organized, effective federal aid response. As fate would have it, following the organization of FEMA, there were hardly any natural disasters to strike the continent following its inception and the org became a parking lot for political conspiracy, especially after King George I's buddy was appointed to head the organization - a former advisor to his Chief of Staff with no experience in emergency response.

I wish I'd taken notes last night - names were flying, gruesome footage ... interesting stuff.

What flabbergasted me was that everyone kept pointing to everyone else saying "they never said exactly what they wanted" when the FEMA document layed it out very clearly - days before any help arrived. "We weren't clear just exactly what they needed." This response is indicative of people put in the wrong job.

Does it really take rocket science to figure out that people need food, water, clothing, shelter, medicine? C'mon - put up your hand if you had no idea?

It is disgusting.

 

[Brother John]

So the fact that Brownie's grossly unqualified means nothing?

Who said that??? I didn't read that...
The fact that he's unqualified matters. I agree....it matters. But in the FEMA response to Katrina MANY were upset that the federal govt. didn't do more or have a better response, even to the point that ignorant entertainers could get on TV and say stupid things like "George Bush hates black people"... so stupid.
NO....the directors qualifications are important, but that's not the point here.
reread man... you'll see.


Your Brother
John

 

[Tgace]

Yes the Feds should have done better but they are third in line...the fumble started with the city(s), bounced out of the state(s) hands and landed at the feds feet but somehow the feds are blamed with ****ing-up the play. That goes for all the states involved. When the big blizzard hits up here we dont wait for FEMA to come dig us out. They declare a disaster, send supplies and reimburse the local gvts for the expenses they incurred during the disaster. While shortages of supplies can fall somewhat on Federal shoulders, the evacuation and immediate rescue falls squarely on local/state shoulders. They had warning and lived in an area where this has always been an eventuality. They should have been better prepared.

 

[shesulsa]

Yes the Feds should have done better but they are third in line...the fumble started with the city(s), bounced out of the state(s) hands and landed at the feds feet but somehow the feds are blamed with ****ing-up the play. That goes for all the states involved. When the big blizzard hits up here we dont wait for FEMA to come dig us out. They declare a disaster, send supplies and reimburse the local gvts for the expenses they incurred during the disaster. While shortages of supplies can fall somewhat on Federal shoulders, the evacuation and immediate rescue falls squarely on local/state shoulders. They had warning and lived in an area where this has always been an eventuality. They should have been better prepared.

Okay - everyone pay attention. Dig up a cellar for the tornadoes and hurricanes, build a steel-reinforced concrete house with pontoons that inflate automatically when a certain water level is reached such that your entire home can float in flooded areas and remain waterproof. Make sure you have enough MREs for at least 9 months per person in your household and a 9 month water supply, antibiotics, campden tablets and munitions.

Lobby your local government to ensure that all structures in your area meet all of these requirements because that is their responsibility and, thus, yours as a citizen.

Tom, guess what? You cannot - CANNOT - prepare for everything. No city, county, state nor country can. The order goes, if the disaster is too big for a city to handle, it goes to the state. If the disaster is too big for the state to handle, then it goes to the feds. When it's too big for the feds to handle, we need better government officials and less finger pointing to victims.

What you cannot deny is that THIS IS WHAT FEMA WAS ORGANIZED FOR!! This is what they are MEANT to do. This is SUPPOSED to be THEIR SPECIALTY - THEIR CAUSE - THEIR JOB.

They blew it.

 

[Phoenix44]

Thank you shesulsa.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

http://www.blacknewsweekly.com/news187.html

Let's remember that FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, was created only in 1979. It was formed to coordinate and focus federal response to major disasters – to "assist" local and state governments.

Common sense suggests that local and state governments are best able to prepare and plan for local disasters.

Is a Washington bureaucrat better suited to prepare for an earthquake in San Francisco, a hurricane in Florida, or a terrorist act in New York?

After the Sept. 11 attacks against the World Trade Center, no one suggested that the Bush administration should have been responsible for New York's disaster response or that federal agents should have been involved in the rescue of those trapped in the buildings.

Last year, four major hurricanes slammed into Florida. Governor Jeb Bush led the disaster response and did a remarkable job, with nothing happening like what we have seen in New Orleans.

The primary response in disasters has always come from local communities and state governments.

First responders and the manpower to deal with emergencies come from local communities: police, fire and medical. Under our federal system, these local departments answer to local authorities, not those in Washington. These first responders are not even under federal control, nor do they have to follow federal orders.

In addition to local responders, every state in the Union has a National Guard.

State National Guards answer first to the governor of each state, not to the president. The National Guard exists not to defend one state from an invasion by another state, but primarily for emergencies like the one we have witnessed in New Orleans and in other areas impacted by Katrina. (See: http://www.arng.army.mil/about_us/organization/command_structure.asp)

The media would have you believe that this disaster was worsened by a slow response from President Bush and his administration, though the primary responsibility for disaster response has always been with local and state governments.

It is true that federal response was not as fast as it could have been. The president himself has acknowledged that fact.

But the press has focused on the first 48 hours of federal response, not uttering a word about the fact that New Orleans had 48 hours of warning that a major Category 4 or 5 would make landfall near the city, yet local officials apparently did little to prepare.

Obviously, Gov. Blanco did not effectively deploy her state's National Guard.
And New Orleans' city leaders did almost nothing to evacuate the portion of the population with no transportation. In failing to follow their own evacuation plan, these officials did little to pre-position food, water and personnel to deal with the aftermath.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.fema.gov/about/what.shtm

What We Do

Advising on building codes and flood plain management...teaching people how to get through a disaster...helping equip local and state emergency preparedness...coordinating the federal response to a disaster...making disaster assistance available to states, communities, businesses and individuals...training emergency managers...supporting the nation's fire service...administering the national flood and crime insurance programs...the range of FEMA's activities is broad indeed.

One way to look at what FEMA does is to think about the life cycle of disasters. Some of the functions involved are shown below

The disaster life cycle describes the process through which emergency managers prepare for emergencies and disasters, respond to them when they occur, help people and institutions recover from them, mitigate their effects, reduce the risk of loss, and prevent disasters such as fires from occurring.

http://www.fema.gov/about/respond.shtm

Response begins as soon as a disaster is detected or threatens. It involves mobilizing and positioning emergency equipment; getting people out of danger; providing needed food, water, shelter and medical services; and bringing damaged services and systems back on line. Local responders, government agencies and private organizations take action. Sometimes the destruction goes beyond local and state capabilities. That's when federal help is needed as well.

When the state and local governments are overwhelmed by a disaster, they make a request for federal aid through a Presidential disaster or emergency declaration. Typically, federal assistance is financial. However, the federal government may be asked to mobilize resources from any number of federal agencies, and to participate in the response. This is when the government implements the Federal Response Plan.

Some things FEMA DOES NOT do:

Physically rescue people or serve as "first-responders" in a disaster – that is the responsibility of local and state police, fire and emergency personnel.

Taking "charge" of recovery effort -- FEMA works jointly with state and local officials.

Ordering evacuations of communities due to natural disaster – generally the responsibility of state and local officials.

Calling out the National Guard – generally a state responsibility.

FEMA doesn't evacuate communities. FEMA does not do law enforcement. FEMA does not do communications. FEMA does not do search and rescue. The Feds rarely just step in and take over. The feds are almost always the "last in" in these situations, the local jurisdictions always have thr primary responsibility to prepare, evacuate, rescue and maintain order until the feds arrive.

Funny how at some times the Feds are this big intrusive entity that is too involved in our lives and has too much power and at other times they just cant step in and take over fast enough...

 

[shesulsa]

From your post quoted from http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm

the primary responsibility for disaster response has always been with local and state governments

Yep, and they did everything they were prepared to do ... until the levee gave way. Once again - the situation became too much to handle, so it was escalated to the state, for which the situation became too much to handle as well.

In addition to local responders, every state in the Union has a National Guard.

The National Guard was trapped and flooded in - their vehicles which were designed to work in flood conditions failed.

From your quote from the FEMA site http://www.fema.gov/about/respond.shtm :

Sometimes the destruction goes beyond local and state capabilities. That's when federal help is needed as well.

Are you saying this did not happen? I think just about everybody is in agreement that it did.

Some things FEMA DOES NOT do:

Physically rescue people or serve as "first-responders" in a disaster – that is the responsibility of local and state police, fire and emergency personnel.

Taking "charge" of recovery effort -- FEMA works jointly with state and local officials.

Ordering evacuations of communities due to natural disaster – generally the responsibility of state and local officials.

Calling out the National Guard – generally a state responsibility.

Now, see ... this is the kind of thing that Fema was designed to DO - to COORDINATE the effort by taking charge. And if they are not supposed to this, why did they then report to the general that they would indeed do these things?? Hmm??

Okay, so ... let's apply an analogy. You strike me as a prepared individual. I assume you're prepared for every possibility, so you obviously carry MREs on your person as well as inflatable watercraft, fireproof suit, SCBA, biohazard protection, shelter, rope - gawrsh you'd be a virtual Batman. So, Mr. Wayne, what happens when the rope breaks? and the tent leaks? and the SCBA runs out of oxygen? and the MREs are exhausted? and your legs are broken? and your arms too? I think you'd probably lose your voice from crying for help. Golly Jeepers, Batman! Someone help? But ... but ... but ... THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB!!!!