Done my knee in

[Badger1777]

During training, I misjudged a front kick, and I think I nearly flicked the lower half of my leg off. It didn't hurt much at the time, but as I continued, it started to throb, and now my knee feels like a wobbly/worn hinge. Not exactly in pain, but weak and uncomfortable. Is ibruprofen gel enough for this, or should I strap it up?

 

[K-man]

During training, I misjudged a front kick, and I think I nearly flicked the lower half of my leg off. It didn't hurt much at the time, but as I continued, it started to throb, and now my knee feels like a wobbly/worn hinge. Not exactly in pain, but weak and uncomfortable. Is ibruprofen gel enough for this, or should I strap it up?

Most definitely strap it but continue to ice it for the next 48 hours. Ibuprofen gel might help with small joints but won't do much for the knee. I had my knees hyperextended in a takedown about 3 or 4 months ago and one still isn't right, so don't try to rush the recovery. I use a heavy duty silicon sleeve when training but they cost heaps.
:asian:

 

[Carol]

Disagree a little with KMan. Ice reduces swelling but at the cost of delaying the healing process. A neoprene brace keeps the joint warm which aids in its own healing process. A quick check on amazon shows you have access to some good ones that aren't outrageous:

Body-Tec Adjustable Stabilising neoprene knee support NHS use: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Personally I've used the Ace brand but this one has the added features of the Velcro straps which do a lot to keep the brace in place. Plus its much cheaper than the Ace.

 

[jks9199]

During training, I misjudged a front kick, and I think I nearly flicked the lower half of my leg off. It didn't hurt much at the time, but as I continued, it started to throb, and now my knee feels like a wobbly/worn hinge. Not exactly in pain, but weak and uncomfortable. Is ibruprofen gel enough for this, or should I strap it up?

Can't diagnose over the internet, and I'm not a doctor. I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

That said -- you might want to consider getting it evaluated by a real doc. You're describing what sounds like significant instability in the knee. That could be an indicator of torn tendons or ligaments... And you want to get that treated properly and quickly.

 

[drop bear]

Honestly you will know if it is screwed. But go see a doctor. As far as heat ice split the difference. Ice it at the start to stop the swelling rest, ice, compression, elevation. then ice and heat it a couple of days later.

I have an ice pack and a heat pack do about 10minutes with the ice and 3 minutes with the heat.

 

[Buka]

Give it a couple of days.

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK... here's what I'd tell you in the ER...

If it's unstable, then you need to see an orthopedist to evaluate the connective tissue. Ligament/cartilage/tendon injuries won't show up on XRays. It might be obvious on a physical exam, but more likely if there is singificant suspision of injury to these parts, you will need an MRI.

Compression - Yes. Knee immobilizer - probably better than just an ACE wrap, but without an actual exam... If it's unstable, then it needs an immobilizer.
Ice - Yes, for the first 48 hours.
Heat - After 48 hours you can use heat or ice or a combination of the two.

Anti-inflammatories. Yes.

These are all stopgap treatments until you go have it examined. Do so...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Speaking as one who has done his knees in and is still dealing with knee issues 5 years later...go see a doctor, get an xray and an mri.then you will be told what needs to be done

 

[Badger1777]

Thanks all.

I don't think there is any serious damage in there. I know ordinarily I couldn't say that without having had it thoroughly checked, but I should have mentioned earlier, I am one of those minority of people that has a common medical condition in my knees. It was diagnosed years ago when I was a teenager. I don't fully understand the mechanics of the condition, but the doctor explained it something like this (probably very dumbed down - I'm not a doctor):

In the knee, there is a cushion made of effectively a bag of water. The pressure of the water is regulated naturally with inlets and outlets for the fluid. During intense activity, more fluid is accumulated there in order to protect the knee, the joint and all the plumbing and nerve wiring that's in there. In some people (including me), the surplus fluid does not drain away fast enough, causing a build up of pressure in the knee, which puts pressure on the nerves behind the knee cap, causing pain and inflammation.

I might have got that very wrong, its more than 20 years since the doc explained it to me, but suffice to say that the symptoms I have now are typical of a flare up of that condition that I was diagnosed with years ago. I was told that ordinarily it requires no treatment other than standard sprain treatments to relieve the symptoms.

As an aside, one annoying effect of this phenomenon that sometimes happens is if the pressure builds up too much around the nerves, my whole leg can spontaneously and briefly 'switch off', causing my leg to fold causing me to stumble. Fortunately that hasn't happened for a long time though.

 

[donnaTKD]

i got the same thing going on in the back of my left knee where the fluid sack fills up to tennis ball size and some times prevents the knee from moving at all and is very painful. this only happens to me when i exercise heavy or try running and the impact just make sit all a whole heap worse.

the only cure for it is to have the sack drained and then anti inflammatories.

 

[Steve]

i got the same thing going on in the back of my left knee where the fluid sack fills up to tennis ball size and some times prevents the knee from moving at all and is very painful. this only happens to me when i exercise heavy or try running and the impact just make sit all a whole heap worse.

the only cure for it is to have the sack drained and then anti inflammatories.

How do you have this, a broken ankle, fractured wrists and assorted other ailments, all of which should sideline you or at least prevent any sanctioning body from going anywhere near you, and still allege to train hard and fight in the ring? Something is fishy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[donnaTKD]

ever heard of a product called tramadol i've never been 100% when i've fought, never trained without having an injury of some some sort.

and lets be clear on this you make it sound as though i did all that i one go LoL i didn't - they've happened over the years both my legs have rods pins plates and screws and both my wrists have screws holding them together after a car pulled out in front of my motorbike. i broke my ankle earlier this year in a fight (well documented on these boards) and recovered with extensive physio and training that avoided pressure on my ankle, there's no excuse not to train you either want to be as good as you can be or you don't.

if you want something bad enough then you'll do whatever it takes to get it maybe you're not like that, as for me i'm driven by it - muay thai IS my life without it i'm a mess it gives me structure as well as something to do.

you're right i should've been sidelined - the medics said no, i just took a bunch of pills pulled on my gloves and said lets get on with it. the doctors said that i pushed too hard - did too much but as far i as was concerned i was going to fight and to hell with the consequences. i live for today cos tomorrow never comes.

maybe you can't understand it cos if the doc tells you to go home and rest / put your feet up you do it -- me i don't - i listen to what they've got to say and then i'll be the judge of how i'll train or find a way to train - doesn't bother me if i start getting pain then i take a few more tablets and carry on this is how i am --- the day i get stopped will be the day i get put in a pine box.

also muay thai doesn't have a sanctioning body as far as i'm aware cos anyone can fight.

 

[Steve]

ever heard of a product called tramadol i've never been 100% when i've fought, never trained without having an injury of some some sort.

and lets be clear on this you make it sound as though i did all that i one go LoL i didn't - they've happened over the years both my legs have rods pins plates and screws and both my wrists have screws holding them together after a car pulled out in front of my motorbike. i broke my ankle earlier this year in a fight (well documented on these boards) and recovered with extensive physio and training that avoided pressure on my ankle, there's no excuse not to train you either want to be as good as you can be or you don't.

if you want something bad enough then you'll do whatever it takes to get it maybe you're not like that, as for me i'm driven by it - muay thai IS my life without it i'm a mess it gives me structure as well as something to do.

you're right i should've been sidelined - the medics said no, i just took a bunch of pills pulled on my gloves and said lets get on with it. the doctors said that i pushed too hard - did too much but as far i as was concerned i was going to fight and to hell with the consequences. i live for today cos tomorrow never comes.

maybe you can't understand it cos if the doc tells you to go home and rest / put your feet up you do it -- me i don't - i listen to what they've got to say and then i'll be the judge of how i'll train or find a way to train - doesn't bother me if i start getting pain then i take a few more tablets and carry on this is how i am --- the day i get stopped will be the day i get put in a pine box.

also muay thai doesn't have a sanctioning body as far as i'm aware cos anyone can fight.

Yeah. Okay. Taking you at your word, if you're abusing painkillers and pushing yourself so hard that you fight when you've got an ankle broken in three places, or a knee that's all out of joint... and aren't doing it for a payday... you really, seriously should consider talking to a shrink.

 

[ZapEm]

Yes I know this drug. It's highly addictive. A friend of mine started taking it in Asia after he had an accident, and became addicted.

A friend of a friend, also in Asia (Tramadol is available without prescription there) also got hooked on it and is a serious drug addict now. His family in the UK don't know about his addiction. He gets in a medically dangerous condition when he tries to wean himself off.

Stay away from it.

 

[Badger1777]

ever heard of a product called tramadol i've never been 100% when i've fought, never trained without having an injury of some some sort. ....
you're right i should've been sidelined - the medics said no, i just took a bunch of pills pulled on my gloves and said lets get on with it. the doctors said that i pushed too hard - did too much but as far i as was concerned i was going to fight and to hell with the consequences. i live for today cos tomorrow never comes.

maybe you can't understand it cos if the doc tells you to go home and rest / put your feet up you do it -- me i don't - i listen to what they've got to say and then i'll be the judge of how i'll train or find a way to train - doesn't bother me if i start getting pain then i take a few more tablets and carry on this is how i am --- the day i get stopped will be the day i get put in a pine box.

Thanks for the advice, at 40 and still reasonably fit, and still with the capacity to get fitter, I think I'll continue to not abuse my body too much, in the hope that I'll remain fit enough for long enough to see my kids grow up. When my son says "dad, will you help me practice such and such a move", I want the answer to be "Yes of course I will son", not "no sorry son, I can't, because I can barely move now for arthritis after I ignore that injury and totally destroyed my joints", or "no sorry son, would do, but I might either fall asleep or forget what it is we're doing half way through because ... this... tramadol... ooh look at that... ".

Tramadol is only legal available in the UK by prescription. It is a very controlled drug, and rightly so. I've been on it after a medical issue, and I voluntarily stopped taking it before I'd even finished the course because I was asleep more than I was awake, and when I was awake, half the time I didn't even know what day it was, or whether it was morning or evening or the middle of the night.

 

[K-man]

I wouldn't be going anywhere near tramadol, especially when Badger said he wasn't really in pain. If it is still sore, a couple of days of anti-inflamatories could be in order, but as has been said, if the condition is not improving get some advice from a sports medicine practitioner.

Since tramadol was marketed in Australia in late 1998 its use has increased dramatically. While there is a large amount of information supporting tramadol’s effectiveness for pain, there is an increasingly large body of evidence from post-marketing surveillance showing there are problems. In 1999 there were 19 reports of adverse events, while in 2003 there were 286 reports. As of March 2004 the Australian Adverse Drug Reactions Advisory Committee (ADRAC) has received 726 reports of adverse events associated with tramadol, detailing 1922 reactions. In 453 of the reports, tramadol was the sole suspected drug. These reactions suggest that the decision to prescribe tramadol should be carefully considered.
...
The potential for abuse and dependence with tramadol is low. However, there have been case reports of dependence and withdrawal after long-term use. ADRAC has received 24 reports of a withdrawal syndrome with tramadol. It is important to monitor patients on long-term tramadol and to avoid abrupt cessation after long-term use.
Trouble with tramadol - Australian Prescriber

 

[Badger1777]

I wouldn't be going anywhere near tramadol, especially when Badger said he wasn't really in pain. If it is still sore, a couple of days of anti-inflamatories could be in order, but as has been said, if the condition is not improving get some advice from a sports medicine practitioner.

That piece of article you quote is very informative, and I can well believe it based on my own experience of the drug.

I was rushed to hospital a few weeks ago after collapsing unconscious following unexplained chest pain (thankfully it turned out not to be the most obvious thing). In the later stages of treatment, after I stopped needing the more powerful intravenous meds, they had me on a combo of paracetamol and tramadol. The nurses would ask every time if I felt I needed the tramadol. They clearly didn't want me to have it if I didn't need it. The trouble is, I found I enjoyed it (I didn't know at that time it was based on opium). I'd take it, and then just lay there having actual dreams while still kind of awake.

When I was discharged, they gave me a month's supply of tramadol to take with me, which I took as per the advice for a while. I was happy, but I didn't know what was what. I phoned my boss at work to discuss some outstanding stuff I was worried about, and was told "I know, you already phoned me 10 minutes ago". I stopped taking them after I became aware that my 5 year old son was getting upset that I was making no sense and not listening to him, and because I was always too tired to play. I was off sick, but not indefinitely, yet I stopped caring about work or paying the mortgage. I was just too mellow to care, and yet the tiny voice of logic was screaming that this was no good, I had to care. So I stopped taking them. My clarity of thought came back within a couple of days.

There is no wonder that tramadol is a prescription drug that is not readily prescribed. It actually isn't much weaker than the neat morphine that was pumped into my veins while I was still in the ambulance, causing me to think the stretcher bed thing was a sun lounger and the ceiling light was the Mediterranean sun.

 

[donnaTKD]

Thanks for the advice, at 40 and still reasonably fit, and still with the capacity to get fitter, I think I'll continue to not abuse my body too much, in the hope that I'll remain fit enough for long enough to see my kids grow up. When my son says "dad, will you help me practice such and such a move", I want the answer to be "Yes of course I will son", not "no sorry son, I can't, because I can barely move now for arthritis after I ignore that injury and totally destroyed my joints", or "no sorry son, would do, but I might either fall asleep or forget what it is we're doing half way through because ... this... tramadol... ooh look at that... ".

Tramadol is only legal available in the UK by prescription. It is a very controlled drug, and rightly so. I've been on it after a medical issue, and I voluntarily stopped taking it before I'd even finished the course because I was asleep more than I was awake, and when I was awake, half the time I didn't even know what day it was, or whether it was morning or evening or the middle of the night.

you're right about the sleepy part of the side effects - part of why i use it - means that i can't feel anything which in turn gives the injury time on it's own to heal

i see nothing inherantly wrong with using it - i have my limits as to how much of it i'll use but as soon as things start to get better i stop using it without any side effects from stopping. for me tramadol is just an aid to getting things right again s'all --- i don't abuse it, if i'm carrying an injury going into a scrap then yup i'll take it so that i can concentrate on what it is that i'm doing and not on the injury

just my way of doing things.

 

[Argus]

you're right about the sleepy part of the side effects - part of why i use it - means that i can't feel anything which in turn gives the injury time on it's own to heal

i see nothing inherantly wrong with using it - i have my limits as to how much of it i'll use but as soon as things start to get better i stop using it without any side effects from stopping. for me tramadol is just an aid to getting things right again s'all --- i don't abuse it, if i'm carrying an injury going into a scrap then yup i'll take it so that i can concentrate on what it is that i'm doing and not on the injury

just my way of doing things.

Pain is the body's way of letting you know what's up. If you take a pain killer in order to exert yourself when you already have an injury, you won't know when you're over doing it and making your injury worse. You have to be very attentive to your body if you insist on training with an injury, or you run the risk of doing more damage without even realizing it.

Take care of yourself today or you'll have nothing when that far off tomorrow becomes today. Then you will have only regrets "today." If you enjoy training at all, you had best take care of yourself.

 

[donnaTKD]

i know that the soft tissue injuries i'm carrying respond to traxam gel and tramadol -- the tramadol i don't use more than 4 tabs per day and even that depends on what it's like to start with. if my injury feels good to go then i won't use any and if it's still playing up then i'll use them.

some people ahve approached me in the past so that they can use them recreationaly - i don't believe in taking or using illegal drugs i know that tramadol should prolly be on the banned list of substances but for me the stuff works -- the only other option i got realistically is to start smoking rocky only that stuff gives me bad munchies.

i take the advice that the doc says and the guidlines on the packet help me a lot so it's not as if i'm abusing the stuff -- my doc monitors the amount that i can have and that's fine by me

i don't worry at all about tomorrow it's what i can and can't do today that bothers me --- whether this is right or wrong depends on experiences - when that car pulled out on me all those years ago i should've been dead - losing blood etc........ but i was having a laugh with the doctors and stuff really didn't bother me that i was at deaths door, i'm not scared of dying.