Does you TKD school teach weapons?

[miguksaram]

Well does it? I know for the most part weapons are not an inheritant part of the TKD curriculum. So am just wondering if your school does teach a weapons curriculum and if so, where did they learn it?

My last TKD instructor, GM Park taught the bo. He learned it from a friend of his who was in KSW. He implemented it for upper belts to train in. Other than that he taught kumdo as a seperate class.

My current school does teach 5 basic weapons in its curriculum (bo, nunchaku, sai, kama, tonfa). Kids will learn bo at yellow belt level (7th kyu/gup). Adults start at orange belt (8th kyu/gup).

 

[mango.man]

Both of the "traditional" schools that we have been at in the past tried to start weapons classes. Both cancelled weapons classes within a month or so due to lack of interest.

 

[ATC]

Only Black Belts get to learn weapons. We teach three.

1. The nunchucks of course
2. The Bo or Staff.
3. And the Sword or Kumdo as it's called.

There are a few that do Cali or Escrima also but we don't teach it. I think they came from other schools with the knowledge.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Gen. Choi designed the ITF syllabus with no weapons in it (I actually have an old interview of him from circa 1974 or so where the interviewer asks why that was and he basically said, "Why not just get a gun?") so no, my instructor's school doesn't include weapons techniques. It does, however, include some self-defense against weapons.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Flying Crane]

I got one thing to say about weapons: Zombie Horde Invasion!!

When civilization crumbles beneath the crush of the zombie hordes, those of us who already know how to use the cutters and the choppers and the slicers and the pokers and the crushers, we'll have the survival advantage. Remember: Blades Don't Need Reloading!!!

 

[Miles]

We learn a little Pekiti Tirsia Kali in our TKD classes. I don't teach the class as I am not qualified, but we have a regular guest instructor. It is a lot of fun and good for the students to see that I too am a student.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

we do no weapons training at all. We do a lot of self defence training against weapons , but dont actually learn how to use the weapons.

 

[bluekey88]

No weapons training here either. Just some defense against weapons. I get my weapons work in my BBT class.I personalyl see vaue in basic weapons training. Even with "traditional" weapons, a lot can be learned about distance, angles and timing. Though weapons are different, the principles are similar. However, it is not a necessity hat they be learned or taught. I know plenty of good martial artists who do know weapons training.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Only Black Belts get to learn weapons. We teach three.

1. The nunchucks of course
2. The Bo or Staff.
3. And the Sword or Kumdo as it's called.

There are a few that do Cali or Escrima also but we don't teach it. I think they came from other schools with the knowledge.

What does your kumdo program consist of? And what is its origin?

Daniel

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Gen. Choi designed the ITF syllabus with no weapons in it (I actually have an old interview of him from circa 1974 or so where the interviewer asks why that was and he basically said, "Why not just get a gun?") so no, my instructor's school doesn't include weapons techniques. It does, however, include some self-defense against weapons.

Pax,

Chris

Hey Chris,

Actually The General did have a form that one of his first Korean students I believe came up with that had two knives in it way back. Some where along the line it was discarded. I still have the black and white pictures some where. :erg:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well does it? I know for the most part weapons are not an inheritant part of the TKD curriculum. So am just wondering if your school does teach a weapons curriculum and if so, where did they learn it?

My last TKD instructor, GM Park taught the bo. He learned it from a friend of his who was in KSW. He implemented it for upper belts to train in. Other than that he taught kumdo as a seperate class.

My current school does teach 5 basic weapons in its curriculum (bo, nunchaku, sai, kama, tonfa). Kids will learn bo at yellow belt level (7th kyu/gup). Adults start at orange belt (8th kyu/gup).

We have a weapons program. Students must be black belt or higher to participate.

For taekwondo, it consists of bo, nunchucku, sai, Chinese broadsword, spear, and kwan-do.

For hapkido, the weapons program consists of cane, escrima sticks, knife, belt, and sword (using a bokken).

Needless to say, our kendo program consists of only one weapon.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

I do not do TKD, I do Kenpo, however, we also teach some weapons in our school. There are some weapon related forms, with the bo, chuks, etc., in addition to our knife and stick work. Many of our black belts are also black belts in Arnis, which is a weapon oriented art, so we often add in some Arnis flavor to the Kenpo weapons disarms.

I enjoy working with weapons. If you came from a traditional art, working with the weapons, keeps that tradition alive. And yes, in todays world, if you walked around with a bo or tonfa, chances are, you'll be arrested. There is also a big difference between the weapons work and application that you see in a traditional school, vs. what you see in tournaments. This is why many tournaments have seperate divisions for traditional weapons, kata, etc., because its not right or fair to have someone who's doing some flashy weapon kata, complete with jumping, spinning and other stuff, going against someone who is maintaining the traditional values of the weapon. The flash is fine, if thats what you want to do, but understand there is a big difference. Additionally, much of the weapons work can be applied to other things, ie: a bo can be supplemented with a broom.

Personally, for the more realistic applications, I just stick with the stick and blade. Many of the disarms, with slight modification, can be applied to each other, including empty hand.

I'm also a believer in the fact that if you really want to understand a weapon to its fullest, that you need to understand how it works. Kenpo has stick and knife disarms, but once I started training in the FMAs, it opened my eyes to a world of other things.

 

[dancingalone]

Direct answer to OP: I teach bo at my friend's TKD school to anyone who wants to attend. It's an add-on program for their "Master's Club" (yuck, but I guess he knows what he is doing dollar-wise). Students learn everything I teach to my own students, including traditional forms and two-man fighting sets. It's a good arrangement as he has a large facility with high ceilings and in return I hold my own weapons classes for my karate students there as well because my private dojo is smaller.

Expanded off-topic answer: I am a teacher of Okinawan Goju-Ryu karate. (Not karate-do.) I also teach some kicking methods from tae kwon do as that was my first art and I believe the Korean versions of the kicks are more powerful and can be useful in many situations.

As a Goju-Ryu teacher, I instruct kobudo as well like most teachers that come from traditional Goju-Ryu lines do.

Bo instruction starts at white belt after the first 3 months of membership in the school. Sai, tonfa, nunchaku, and eku are taught as well when the student is sufficiently advanced.

 

[rmclain]

I know you are focusing on the TKD curriculum, but I will mention our requirements since it is a fore-runner to modern TKD. I'll just discuss classic weapons (not knife or firearms defense related)

Chayon-Ryu includes 4 classic bong sul hyung from the Changmoo-kwan/Kangduk-Won lineage. Grandmaster Kim Soo developed another form following the same pattern as the 9th Gup form (listed below), and 4 bayonette forms (while serving/instructing in the Korean Army 1959-61).


9th Gup: Classical Bong Hyung -The first Bong hyung is taught. This staff form follows the same pattern as the Kibon Hyung (Kicho Hyung). Bayonette form: Sabang Bong Hyung Il Jol

8th Gup: Classical Bong Hyung - A supplemental bong sul hyung that was developed by Grandmaster Kim Soo is learned. Bayonette form: Sabang Bong Hyung Yi Jol

4th Gup: Classical Bong Hyung - the bong sul hyung developed by Yoon Byung-in in Japan is learned. Bayonette form: Sabang Bong Hyung Sam Jol

1st Dan: Classical Bong Hyung - the bong sul hyung developed by Yoon Ui-byung (Yoon Kwe-byung) is learned. Bayonette form: Sabang Bong Hyung Sa Jol

5th Dan: Classical Bong Hyung - The bong sul hyung developed by Jua Bu Chong is learned.

At 8th Gup, students work on 6 basic self-defenses against a juk-do (Shinai). Student's don't learn classic Kumdo, just defenses against a "shinai-length" pole.

R. McLain

Well does it? I know for the most part weapons are not an inheritant part of the TKD curriculum. So am just wondering if your school does teach a weapons curriculum and if so, where did they learn it?

My last TKD instructor, GM Park taught the bo. He learned it from a friend of his who was in KSW. He implemented it for upper belts to train in. Other than that he taught kumdo as a seperate class.

My current school does teach 5 basic weapons in its curriculum (bo, nunchaku, sai, kama, tonfa). Kids will learn bo at yellow belt level (7th kyu/gup). Adults start at orange belt (8th kyu/gup).

 

[miguksaram]

Gen. Choi designed the ITF syllabus with no weapons in it (I actually have an old interview of him from circa 1974 or so where the interviewer asks why that was and he basically said, "Why not just get a gun?") so no, my instructor's school doesn't include weapons techniques. It does, however, include some self-defense against weapons.

Pax,

Chris

Ok..so I have to ask, how do you teach self defense against something that you do not practice with? Which weapons do you have self defense techniques for?

 

[miguksaram]

We have a weapons program. Students must be black belt or higher to participate.

For taekwondo, it consists of bo, nunchucku, sai, Chinese broadsword, spear, and kwan-do.

For hapkido, the weapons program consists of cane, escrima sticks, knife, belt, and sword (using a bokken).

Needless to say, our kendo program consists of only one weapon.

Daniel

Interesting mix of weapons you teach. Did you learn the Chinese weapons from a previous style or did someone from a previous style teach them? I am wanting to learn the spear. Our wushu instructor is on break from being an opening act in the Britney Spears tour, so hopefully I can get some one on one time with him to teach me.

 

[miguksaram]

I know you are focusing on the TKD curriculum, but I will mention our requirements since it is a fore-runner to modern TKD. I'll just discuss classic weapons (not knife or firearms defense related)

Chayon-Ryu includes 4 classic bong sul hyung from the Changmoo-kwan/Kangduk-Won lineage. Grandmaster Kim Soo developed another form following the same pattern as the 9th Gup form (listed below), and 4 bayonette forms (while serving/instructing in the Korean Army 1959-61).

If I'm not mistaken there is a huge Chuan-fa influence in your style. Were any weapons work brought over from that?

 

[rmclain]

Not unless some of it (chuan-fa) influenced the staff form Yoon Byung-in created. I never heard it discussed that he learned anything but empty-handed techniques from his Chuan-fa teacher.

To my knowledge, he (Yoon Byung-in) learned bong sul (Bo Jitsu) from Toyama Kanken and possibly his friend Yoon Ui-byung (Yoon Kwe-byung). Most people don't know this, but Yoon Ui-byung (Yoon Kwe-byung) published a book in Japan on staff technques in the 1930's. He gave credit to his teachers Toyama Kanken and Genwa Mabuni in the book.

R. McLain

If I'm not mistaken there is a huge Chuan-fa influence in your style. Were any weapons work brought over from that?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Interesting mix of weapons you teach. Did you learn the Chinese weapons from a previous style or did someone from a previous style teach them? I am wanting to learn the spear. Our wushu instructor is on break from being an opening act in the Britney Spears tour, so hopefully I can get some one on one time with him to teach me.

Just to be clear, I do not personally teach any of the weapons curriculum aside from Kendo. It is the only one that I am specifically ranked in in terms of a full curriculum.

I have learned the five staff forms (wish I knew where the forms came from but I do not) and need to create my own staff form for the next test. I do help other students with the staff form, but that is in the capacity of a fellow student, not as an instructor. I have done some drills and sparring with the staff with Master Choi, but that was on my own and not part of the class. Years back, I used to spar with an SCA guy who was into English quarter staff (staff for him, sword for me), so I am very aware of the weapon's capabilities and range.

The weapons curriculum is a team effort by various members on staff, though I know that GM Kim has experience with a broad range of weapons.

The Chinese sword curriculum was put together by Master Matt who has a background in Tai Chi and another Chinese art, though I do not recall which one. Master Lee put together the nunchuku curriculum and Master Deb put together the selection of staff and sai forms. Kwando and spear are Master Kim's.

The weapons curriculum is mainly to provide new material for students to learn past black belt besides just kicks and punches. The only weapon class with a full curriculum of forms, techniques, and free sparring is kendo.

I have done some free sparring with other weapons, both in this class an before being a part of GM Kim's school. Much of my pre-Korean Martial Arts, inc. weapon work was with western weapons, with fencing being the most extensive.

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

The weapons curriculum is a team effort by various members on staff, though I know that GM Kim has experience with a broad range of weapons.

That sounds awesome. It's cool to have a pool of people to pick their brains for things of that nature.