Does being an instructor help or hurt your progress?

[geezer]

Here's a thread directed at all of you who teach MA. Does being an instructor, sensei, sifu, guro, coach or whatever, help you advance and learn more, or does it hold you back? I'm of the opinion that it can work both ways depending on the individual and the situation.

Sometimes being a sifu to my little group is a great motivating factor, and all the time spent teaching mostly lower to mid-level students has really helped my own basics. On the other hand, being a sifu can mean keeping up a role, and can make you reluctant to experiment or try things that might make you look foolish. And it also probably means that your own instructor might not be close by to give you regular correction and help you to move forward. That's my situation anyway, so I'm thankful that I also train with another group (FMA) as a student just so I can concentrate on correcting my own faults, test myself against guys better than me, and learn all kinds of new stuff that can shake up my preconceptions .

How about you guys?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I teach, I can

- get training/sparring/wrestling partners.
- send my guys to test my strategies in multiple MMA gyms.
- get paid.

It definitely helps my progress.

 

[jks9199]

It can make it very hard to actually train for yourself because you're swamped trying to teach.

 

[K-man]

I think it makes you advance, and rapidly. Especially if you are now the one everyone turns to. All of a sudden you are the one where the buck stops. What is this for? How can I make this technique work? What if I do this? Why do you do it that way?

Again, you are measured by the students you produce. To produce good students you have to know what you are demonstrating or talking about. If your students are good they will take you to the next level as well.

When our Karate group broke away we only had black belts. That made things super hard in one way but a lot easier in others. We probably neglected our basics to a large degree. When we allowed beginners to join us the dynamic changed. Progression slows because you have to devote time to train others instead of training with others, a subtle distinction.

Krav is a bit different to karate. There are a few basics that don't take long to teach/learn then you just go for it. From an instructor point of view you have big strong guys trying to best you. You have to be on top of your game physically and mentally. Beside that you get guys from other disciplines coming by to try you out as well. In Krav class that mainly means MMA, Muay Thai or boxing rather than TMAs. That sort of training can't help but make you better.

One point in the OP; "Being a Sifu can mean keeping up a role and can make you reluctant to experiment or try things that might make you look foolish". Certainly there is a role, as in leadership, but the ability to experiment is a huge plus. In Krav I might demonstrate some technique against an attack and the guys will start working at it. Often they will instinctively move in a different way and the technique might fail. Rather than say, "no, that is wrong you have to do it this way", I will often say, "OK, under pressure that's probably how you will react. Let's see if we can modify it so it works for you". We end up experimenting, looking for counters, working on body positioning etc. If it doesn't work and I end up on my ****, great, we at least tried. From my perspective experimenting is a huge part of training, especially advanced training.
:asian:

 

[Balrog]

Here's a thread directed at all of you who teach MA. Does being an instructor, sensei, sifu, guro, coach or whatever, help you advance and learn more, or does it hold you back? I'm of the opinion that it can work both ways depending on the individual and the situation.

Agreed. One of the best ways to learn something is to teach it to someone else. It will drastically improve your own technique.

The problem with being an instructor is that we always seem to be teaching and we stop training. You absolutely MUST build some me-time into your weekly schedule where you work on your material for your rank. You either train by yourself or you find time to go to a higher rank's school and train with them. Never lose sight of the fact that, yes, I'm an instructor, but I'm a student first and foremost.

 

[yak sao]

Teaching is definitely a two edged sword. While I do learn a lot from teaching, I don't get the time I would like to train on my own.
Like you said, as a sifu, you always feel like you are in a spotlight and are always on...which isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess as it helps to keep you honest and hold yourself to a higher standard. But I do miss just training.
I've toyed off and on about just finding a new school and starting over so I could just be a student again, but let's get real, Wing Tsun is my passion and what I want to do.

A solution I've tried for the past month has been to do away with my group class and go strictly to teaching privately or semi privately by appointment. Now when I do teach I'm not up in front herding a bunch of cats. I'm able to direct my attention to one or a few people and actually get in there with them and get my hands a little more dirty.

So far this approach has seemed to work. With new people I'm right there with them going over basics, with the more advanced I'm training lat sau and chi sau. And I do a group seminar one weekend a month to keep some group cohesiveness.

 

[Danny T]

I believe teaching will help you advance and learn provided you are open to learning. Open to pressure testing and open to leaving your ego at the door and willing to learn from your students as they advance. Are you willing to spar them, willing to be taken down by them, punched and kicked by them? When a student pulls off something that surprises you do you get excited and want to know what/how it happen or do you get upset that you got bested. Do you practice with your students, drill with them, exercise with them or do you just instruct and watch?


I also attend training seminars at other schools, different systems and styles to gain different perspectives and ideas and encourage all my students to do so as well.


I train, practice and instruct several martial systems and I drill, exercise, and spar in all of them. It is a constant polishing, refining, and learning process.

 

[hussaf]

It very much depends. At first it almost always helps. But it can turn into apathy and laziness. One can get set in their ways and cease to grow or change. These people can still be charismatic, and their students will like them which can trick these teachers into thinking they are growing in their budo, but they are not. I travel frequently for work, and always bring a uniform and white belt. Its always a learning experience to put on a white belt and mix with people who don't know you.

 

[drop bear]

Our coach fights at an elite level. And has to go to the effort of seeking out quality training for himself or disadvantaging himself when training with us.

There is also an acceptance that some times it will be all about him and not about us. So as we approach a fight we may either just have to help his training or train ourselves depending.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Both! It helps you define and solidify what you do know, but we naturally defend what we have solidified, and it can be hard to let go; so, good luck with that.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I believe teaching will improve your knowledge of your art, but generally your physical performance will suffer, especially if you are teaching commercially. It's incredibly difficult to find time to train hard when you're running a business and teaching all the classes.

 

[Buka]

As everyone here knows, training is one of the most enjoyable things in life. If anyone didn't feel that way, I don't think they'd be training long. Let's face it, we're all junkies. When you become proficient, as your skills reach a certain level, you usually end up helping out with the teaching in your school. If you you're good at teaching, and not everyone is, it can be very rewarding and help your own skill level as well.

But opening your own dojo is a royal pain in the butt. Suddenly, you have to deal with everything. Suddenly you have to think of things you never had to deal with before. Rent, insurance, scheduling, parents, students, that leaky pipe, and every single thing that happens or doesn't happen in the dojo falls on you. The time you used to spend thinking about how to counter that technique you love is now sometimes spent thinking about the best way to deal with something that pops up in the dojo, and things always pop up in the dojo. But, there is a wonderful upside. If you're good at what you do - you can change peoples lives for the better.

To me, the best time of your martial life is those first ten years. So much excitement, so much fun, so many dojo mates, so much learning...and a few black eyes - usually just when you'll be in wedding pictures or something.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Teaching is a great motivator to understand what you are doing. As a teacher you have to look at the movements and you should understand the elements and principles being applied. This can really help with your knowledge and allow you to impart it to the practitioners training with you. One of the big negatives of teaching is that in a large group class you can become so busy helping, teaching, correcting other practitioners that their is no training time for you. How I handle this is that I generally teach about 8 private lessons to 1 group class. In my private lessons the practitioner's I teach have to have a partner which is me. So I am getting ton's of training in during the drills, sparring, grappling that we are doing. I get a workout and I teach in these private lessons. Some times I will have three in a row and be going non-stop for three hours training and teaching in a vigorous manner.

If you are a teacher and only teaching group classes you most definitely need to set aside other time to privately train yourself! This is essential!

 

[Blindside]

If I had an experienced coach/instructor near me that could teach me in Pekiti I would still be a student, or simply the assistant instructor, but I moved and if I want training partners I have to develop them. As a group instructor I have the freedom to take the class curriculum where I want, which is a nice feature and I am pretty happy that I have been able to use the class to progress in a direction that actually is directly focused on my deficiencies as a practitioner. And I don't think that my performance has suffered from being an instructor, I am certainly better now than 5 years ago when I started the club.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Does being an instructor, sensei, sifu, guro, coach or whatever, help you advance and learn more, or does it hold you back? I'm of the opinion that it can work both ways depending on the individual and the situation.

I agree it can work both ways, personally for me my biggest growth has come from retiring and then teaching MAs.

Sometimes being a sifu to my little group is a great motivating factor, and all the time spent teaching mostly lower to mid-level students has really helped my own basics.

Same here teaching my karate (TKD) program has really helped my basics in TKD and allowed me to grow in an art that I'm not really truly interested in (advancement wise). Prior to teaching commercially (in a Recreation Center) I really didn't train my TKD as much as my FMAs, now I spend more time teaching the TKD, but it gives me an avenue to integrate and teach the FMAs also on a commercial level.

On the other hand, being a sifu can mean keeping up a role, and can make you reluctant to experiment or try things that might make you look foolish. And it also probably means that your own instructor might not be close by to give you regular correction and help you to move forward.

This is true, however I've come to grips with my advancing in age and so I don't do the stuff that makes me look foolish anymore. Like I haven't jump kicked in what, 15 -20 years. Now my students get to do it, and they love doing it, but I don't demonstrate that kind of stuff anymore.

That's my situation anyway, so I'm thankful that I also train with another group (FMA) as a student just so I can concentrate on correcting my own faults, test myself against guys better than me, and learn all kinds of new stuff that can shake up my preconceptions .

I do believe in cross training and working with others. I have for the past couple of years trained with a Pekiti class (workout group) (after my classes) just so I can be a student again, however by working with others in a different FMA style than what I teach, it helps me to expand the understanding of my art as well by looking at things from a different perspective.

I still train with a Kobudo group so that I can grow in that area of weapons work. I enjoy working with others in the empty hand aspect of the karate or TKD, but to seriously to train at it as in learning advanced forms in TKD, naw my empty hand work comes from my FMA training.

 

[Mark Lynn]

As everyone here knows, training is one of the most enjoyable things in life. If anyone didn't feel that way, I don't think they'd be training long. Let's face it, we're all junkies. When you become proficient, as your skills reach a certain level, you usually end up helping out with the teaching in your school. If you you're good at teaching, and not everyone is, it can be very rewarding and help your own skill level as well.

I agree and that is a big difference between now and when I was in my first 10 years of training. Now I love teaching and making others better, during the first 10 years it was all about me.

But opening your own dojo is a royal pain in the butt. Suddenly, you have to deal with everything. Suddenly you have to think of things you never had to deal with before. Rent, insurance, scheduling, parents, students, that leaky pipe, and every single thing that happens or doesn't happen in the dojo falls on you. The time you used to spend thinking about how to counter that technique you love is now sometimes spent thinking about the best way to deal with something that pops up in the dojo, and things always pop up in the dojo. But, there is a wonderful upside. If you're good at what you do - you can change peoples lives for the better.

A couple of years back I started to get geared up to move out of the Rec. Center and into a stand alone school, and you are right it is a royal pain in the butt. As one GM told me "as the sensei you also become the janitor". Even though I didn't make that jump (I'm still at the Rec.), in order to grow my program to meet my bills, I need to think about marketing, doing demos, making slide shows, answering emails from parents, networking with other instructors etc. etc. none of which I had to do when I was just a student.

To me, the best time of your martial life is those first ten years. So much excitement, so much fun, so many dojo mates, so much learning...and a few black eyes - usually just when you'll be in wedding pictures or something.

My first 10 years were really enjoyable and in a sense some of the best years of my life as a martial artist. From 10-25 years were also a period of growth as I worked for an airline and traveled a lot to train at seminars etc. etc. so I got to meet a lot of people and train with a lot of great instructors.

Although for me the last 7 years teaching at the Rec. (years 25-32) has been by far the most enjoyable and rewarding for me, as well as probably the biggest period of growth as a martial artist. Now I was able to try and grow the program that I wanted to, to bring up my own students, and be judged on their abilities and their growth etc. etc. All of the previous training and lessons learned under some great instructors I could now try and bring together and I had the freedom to do it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are a teacher and only teaching group classes you most definitely need to set aside other time to privately train yourself! This is essential!

When you

- go to a class, if you throw your opponent 200 times, your opponent will also need to throw you 200 times.
- teach a 20 students class, if you throw each student 10 times (your excuse is they need to feel this from their teacher), you will get your 200 throws work out done. The nice thing is, you don't need to be thrown by your students. You will have enough energy left to throw your students 200 more times. This way you can work out twice as much for your own benefit.

You just don't have this advantage when you are not teaching.