DKI and No Touch Knockouts?

[Matt Stone]

Can anyone comment on this? Not flames or emotional commentary (there is enough of that around the internet already), just informed explanations, please.

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

Can anyone comment on this? Not flames or emotional commentary (there is enough of that around the internet already), just informed explanations, please.

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

I was sceptical, because Dillman himself, said they don't work every time. However, my Senseii, says that he has done it. If my Senseii says it is so, then you could put money on it being so. Incidently, he also says it doesn't work every time.


--Dave
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

I guess the major question for me is WHY?...........

From the video clips I have seen of Dillman as well as Rich Mooney it seems to take several minutes to accomplish ( if it really does work at all). Money was exposed as a fraud a while back.

I can't see it working in a self-defense situation since you are unlikely to get someone to pause mid attack and let you do whatever it is while they wait.....................maybe it is the attacker that is doing the no touch KO's and then takes the guys money.

Either way I can't see much benefit in it.

 

[cdhall]

On this general topic of whether a knock-out strike can be employed in an actual encounter, I want to say that I have done techniques in class on many occassions where the opponent will be stunned/shocked/surprised during the technique so that you would have 1 second to "retool" and execute whatever move you like.

I know we have all seen this even in sparring where an opponent will react and we will see a new opening and adjust our attack to take advantage. From the Dillman knockouts I've seen you only need a clear shot to pull them off.

I don't know if this applies to No Touch knockouts and if there is a better thread for this comment I invite the MODS to move this post and let me know.

Thank you.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Doug,

Saw your website, looks nice.

As for the strike you described I think you are referring to a contact strike.
The ones that people have eluded to on this thread are supposedly done with out even touching someone.
I sued to have a URL with these No touch KO's on them but seem to have lost it when I transferred files to my new computer.

 

[arnisador]

I have seen several of these performed, by Mr. Dillman and some of his senior students. I have posted my thoughts on it on this forum before. In my opinion these are principally "social pressure" knockouts, where the student falls to avoid embarrassing their instructor; there are elements of stage magic too. I don't mean to imply that Mr. Dillman and his people don't really believe in this but rather that they have accidentally rediscovered a "trick" and attribute the phenomenon to Chi rather than the physiology of standing still for long periods and the social psychology aspects of the demonstration. At one point a student failed to go down and Mr. Dillman pointed out that he had his toes up and said if he put his toes down he'd go out; indeed, the student fell after this suggestion was made. I believe it was out of an unconscious desire not to embarrass Mr. Dillman. Other students were jumped on and pulled down as soon as they wobbled, as also happens sometimes with the touch knockouts (many of which I think are legitimate KOs or heavy stuns however).

 

[AvPKenpo]

Is there a website with some video samples on it? I would like to see it.

Michael

 

[DKI Girl]

Okay.....I have seen several different people do No Touch KO's....here are my observations....

1. Yes they work.
2. No they are not quick....it does take some time to do this technique and it will take practice to speed it up. Just like any technique you do.
3. I personally have seen many knocked out with this and I have actually seen someone try and fight it mentally.....it made the knockout much deeper and more painful for the uke.

I do have one on video, but don't have it on this computer to upload it. Will see if I can find some clips and post them later today.

dki girl

 

[AvPKenpo]

Thanks DKI.
Michael

 

[KennethKu]

KO someone without physical contact?

That would be against the Law of Physics. No flame intended, but how many times when something that seems to be against the Law of Physics, actually turned out to be true?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by KennethKu

KO someone without physical contact?

That would be against the Law of Physics.

But not the Laws of Psychology, where this is done through mesmerism on a daily basis. Indeed, I believe that this is part of what happens here.

One explanation for the success of some forms of native "magic" (e.g. voodoo) is that it may be possible to literally scare someone to death; one can also faint from exhaustion and from fear.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I have several bad martial arts video's that put the no touch knockout on me. Usually knocks me out for couple of hours.
Bob:rofl:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by arnisador

But not the Laws of Psychology, where this is done through mesmerism on a daily basis. Indeed, I believe that this is part of what happens here.

One explanation for the success of some forms of native "magic" (e.g. voodoo) is that it may be possible to literally scare someone to death; one can also faint from exhaustion and from fear.

YES. That would explain it.

That is probably why it only "works" SOMETIMES, ie with cooperating targets.

 

[Deathtrap101]

Ive never seen or heard of anything like that, can someoneexplain the technique???

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by arnisador



But not the Laws of Psychology, where this is done through mesmerism on a daily basis. Indeed, I believe that this is part of what happens here.

One explanation for the success of some forms of native "magic" (e.g. voodoo) is that it may be possible to literally scare someone to death; one can also faint from exhaustion and from fear.

My best buddy back home (my "sempai," the guy that tested me for my black belt, and godfather to my kids) is also a guild certified hypnotist/hypnotherapist. He has, in the past, used hypnotic suggestion on me to get me to stand still for a brief moment (allowing him to close the distance on me), to make me begin to "fall asleep," etc. I am susceptible to his suggestions because I trust him implicitly, therefore my subconscious mind will allow his suggestions to be received and obeyed... Someone I don't trust, however, will be resisted...

Just an observation, not necessarily a theory about how these alleged "no touch" things work.

On the other hand, since Mr. Mooney has come up in this thread, there are somewhat valid theories about why lin kong jin "empty force" techniques do not work. This theory is based on qigong theory, and seems to be sound. The only problem with the theory, however, is that not all of the detractors of Mr. Mooney's alleged abilities practice qigong, thus making it only one possible solution...

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

I still would like to know what the purpose to these no touch KO's is...........
So far I have not heard any compelling theory as to why they are needed and what they are suppose to achieve.
Personally I doubt that anyone could do them on an "unwilling" subject.


While I was in China I went to the Beijing Institute for Traditional Chinese Medicine and saw some wild stuff.........I mean some really wild stuff.
All of it was done for medical reasons though..........this no touch KO stuff just sounds & looks like a circus side show act.

 

[arnisador]

Mr. Dillman has said that when he first started doing pressure points he couldn't do them in a fighting situation but now can, and that he believes the same will be true of his new discovery of no-touch Chi knockouts within two years.

 

[RyuShiKan]

I might have missed it but I think if I person like Dillman with all his infamy would have gotten in a "real" fight it would have made the news.............I for one would like to see him try it in a "real" fight.

 

[arnisador]

I don't know if he's had a recent fighting experience or not; he boxed for some while so I think he understands a bit about fighting. He was Muhammad Ali's sparring partner for a while, I believe.

He's a big proponent of kata. One quote of his I like (taken from my memory): "Twenty years ago if you had attacked me there was almost no chance that I'd use a technique from a kata on you, any more than I did in point sparring. If you attack me today there's a 99.9% chance that there'll be kata all over you." he actually talks about the applications in the kata more than the pressure points--the pressure points add to the effectiveness of the moves in the kata, he says, as does the use of sound and colors.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

..........He was Muhammad Ali's sparring partner for a while, I believe.

Actually he wasn't. He had his picture taken with Ali and there was a rumor going around to the effect that he "trained" with him which was later proven to be false. He also has his photo taken with Bruce Lee and the same rumor somehow got started..........which was also proven to be not true.
I am afraid "Georgies" only claim to fame before he stumbled on to tuite and kyusho was having a record for breaking blocks of ice.
There is a trend among certain MA folks to go around with a camera and have themselves photographed with various VIP's in the MA community and maybe even get a technique or two demonstrated on them to which they later claim "I trained with XXXXXXXX, see here is the photo of us".
One very famous MA author suggested I do this very thing.
Needless to say I don't..........and have never felt the need to lie about who I trained with.

The Internet certainly has brought a new breed of MA people into the world. :shrug: